View Poll Results: Should we follow ASCs definitions of Spyware/PUPS and add NIS to the detections?

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  • Yes, detect NIS completely!

    222 67.27%
  • Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.

    26 7.88%
  • No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.

    8 2.42%
  • None of the above.

    74 22.42%
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Thread: Either Safer Networking Ltd. or Symantec leaving the Anti Spyware Coalition...

  1. #1
    Member of Team Spybot PepiMK's Avatar
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    Default Either Safer Networking Ltd. or Symantec leaving the Anti Spyware Coalition...

    From March 2005 to December 2005, Symantec labeled Spybot-S&D as incompatible to Norton Ghost, and endangering backups, with no reason given to us in 19 months now. Since October 2005, Norton Internet Security has told users that Spybot-S&D would be incompatible and they had to remove Spybot-S&D.
    Eleven months later, Symantec has given us just one explanation that was mostly invented and not fitting. Even though Symantec again promised changes, they have now released Norton Internet Security 2007 which again urges the user to uninstall Spybot-S&D.

    We would have loved to work with them to remove any incompatibility, but although they were eager to tell their customers about these so-called 'incompatibilities', even threats of legal action could not persuade Symantec to give us any details. Well, actually they promised they would send us details, but those promises haven't been fullfilled for nearly a year. Is Symantecs Quality Assurance department so bad that they can't either find the old reports or re-test?

    Both of us are members of the ASC, the Anti Spyware Coalition, a group of anti-spyware companies working together - in theory. The ASC has discussed Best Practices for half a year now. Sadly, this seems to only affect practices against malware creators, while coalition members are allowed to fight each other as much as they want.

    If we created spyware instead of anti-spyware, we probably would laugh various body parts at seeing how one anti-spyware application removes the other.

    Arbitration by the ASC has only resulted in broken promises by Symantec.

    We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.

    If you think that anti-spyware companies should fight spyware creators instead of each other, please send an email to ASC members of your choice, found here, and/or to the ASC itself, at .


    Following that, thinking on how we could stop Symantec, we have two options: taking expensive legal steps, or behaving the same way as Symantec, accepting the removal of a competitor as a "legit" step.
    Should we add detection for Norton Internet Security 2006 and 2007 as Malware or Possibly UnPopular Software (PUPS)?

    * Yes, detect NIS completely!
    * Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.
    * No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.
    * None of the above.

    Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.

    Please feel free to vote in this topic, and/or leave your comments, especially if you vote for option 4 (None of the above).
    Just remember, love is life, and hate is living death.
    Treat your life for what it's worth, and live for every breath
    (Black Sabbath: A National Acrobat)

  2. #2
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    Default

    Hallo,
    ich fühle mich da jetzt wenig angesprochen, zumal ich die Dienste von Symantec nicht in Anspruch nehme/nehmen werde, und dank des ausschließlichen Angebots für neuere Platformen nicht nehmen könnte. Wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, macht das f-secure mit ad-aware genauso. Ich hätte die Lavasoft Software erstmal deinstallieren müssen, und darauf würde ich genausowenig verzichten wollen. Nachdem ich weiß was Spybot bietet und ich sehr zufrieden bin, verstehe ich das jetzt nicht ganz.
    Ich hoffe, und wünsche, dass Ihr stolz auf eure Software seid und euch nicht unterkriegen lasst, denn die, die Spybot kennen, die würden darauf nicht verzichten wollen!!
    Mein Antivirenprogramm erkennt auch nicht alles, aber Spybot erkennt's!
    Gruß
    P.S. Wenn Symantec Malware auf seiner Software hat, dann gehört das auch in Spybot!

  3. #3
    Member GT500's Avatar
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    Default

    As a PC technician, I cannot support Symantec or Norton in any way.

    I say detect them completely. Better to have a fool-proof method of removing Norton than using Symantec's uninstall utilities...

    Anyone who doesn't want to get rid of Norton can simply leave the dialog box unchecked. And Spybot S&D can warn users with Norton installed that it will show up in the list of results, similarly to the way it warns you about Ad-Aware compatibility issues.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Ich finde Spybot ist Klasse und Ihr solltet euch nicht unterkriegen lassen ich habe früher auch Symantec genutzt und war nicht grad begeistert...

    Ich sag mal so wenn man schon in einer solchen Organisation ist, sollte man sich nicht gegenseitig runter machen nur weil man ein paar andere Vorstellungen hat wie etwas abzulaufen hat. Die Anti Spyware Koalition sollte auch an die Aufgabe denken, die PC Anwender zu schützen, zusammenzuarbeiten und gemeinsam Lösungen zu finden.

    Das ganze macht den Eindruck als komme man sich im Kindergarten vor wo der eine dem anderen den Lutscher nicht gönnt.

  5. #5
    Senior Member djpailo's Avatar
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    Default

    Symantec think they are so great. I full support safer-netowrking and all their products.

  6. #6
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    Thumbs up

    Symantec needs to grow up or it will be killed!

    Stand up for what is right!

  7. #7
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    Default Symantec malware

    I registered so I could post this. Initially I agree with GT500. However it is my hope that Symantec will soon take care of itself, as it were. Let me explain:

    I have used Norton Utilities across two platforms since I could back up my computer on <100 floppy disks; over a decade. I am saddened by what Symantec has done to the once great Norton diagnostic tools. Norton Utilities is destined to be buried, as Symantec has bought and buried so many fine tools in the past. Remember ProCOMM Plus? How about the Sygate firewall - the firewall product I used and recommended until recently. For the complete "Wall of Shame" list go to

    Discontinued Products
    http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...a?OpenDocument

    Or if you'd really rather not visit Symantec's javascript-infested site here is the list (I rather think it speaks for itself):

    A
    ACT! 2000
    ACT! for Lotus Notes
    ACT! For MAC
    ACT! For the HP
    ACT! For the Newton 1.06b
    ACT! For the Psion
    ACT! Mobile LinkC

    C
    Café’
    Caffeine
    Central Point AntiVirus (CPAV)
    Central Point Backup
    Commserver
    CommSuite
    CPAV
    CrashDefender Deluxe 2.0
    CU-See Me
    CyberJack
    C++

    D
    dbANYWHERE
    Developer’s Advantage
    Direct Access
    DiskClone Corporate
    DiskClone Extra Strengh
    DiskDoubler
    Disklock
    DOS Fax
    DOS Fax Pro
    Hide details for EE

    E
    Echo Lake
    Emergency Disk
    Enterprise Backup
    Enterprise Developer
    Expert
    Expose

    F
    FastBack
    FaxLite for Macintosh
    FaxPro for Macintosh
    File Manager
    Flinstones Screen Saver
    Form Flow

    G
    Grandview
    Greatworks
    GuideMaker

    H
    Healthy PC
    Healthy PC.com

    I
    Installer Pro
    Intermission Screen Saver
    Internet FastFind
    Iware Connect 3.1
    I-Zip

    J
    JITspeed
    JustConnect
    Just Enough Pascal

    L
    Landlord

    M
    Mac Tools
    Merge/Convert
    Mobile Essentials
    More PC Tools for DOS/Windows
    Multi-Scope

    N
    NAS/NASEE
    NetSatisFAXtion
    NetWork Administration
    Norton 2000 1.0
    Norton Administrator for Networks
    Norton Antivirus Corporate Edition 6.0
    Norton Backup
    Norton Commander 1.0 for OS/2
    Norton Commander 5.0 for DOS
    Norton Commander for Windows 95
    Norton Crashguard
    Norton Desktop
    Norton Desktop Administrator
    Norton Disklock
    Norton Editor
    Norton Ghost 5.1
    Norton Ghost for Netware 2.0
    Norton Navigator
    Norton NT Tools
    Norton Safe on the Web
    Norton Secret Stuff
    Norton Speed Disk
    Norton Web Security
    Norton Uninstall Deluxe
    Norton Your Eyes Only
    Norton Zip Rescue

    O
    On Target
    Optlink
    Opus and Bill Screen Saver

    P
    Partition-It 1.02
    PC Handyman
    PC Telecommute
    PC Tools
    PC TuneUp
    Perform
    Planning and Budgeting for Windows 95
    ProComm RapidRemote
    Protect Your Site
    Pyro!

    Q
    Qemm 97 9.0
    Quarterdeck Utility Pack 1.0
    Q&A

    R
    RealHelp Extra Strengh
    RealHelp 1.0
    Remove-IT 98 4.0
    Report Maker Windows
    Retriever

    S
    SAM
    SAM Administrator
    Speed Tools
    SpeedDrive
    SQZ!
    Suitcase
    Suites
    S.A.F.E
    Symantec AntiVirus for Palm OS
    Symantec Mobile Essentials
    Symantec Mobile Update 1.0

    T
    TalkWorks
    Think C
    Think Pascal
    Think Reference
    TimeLine
    Hide details for VV
    Visual Café
    VisualPage
    VirusSweep 2.0
    VirusSweep Extra Strength

    V
    Visual Café
    VisualPage
    VirusSweep 2.0
    VirusSweep Extra Strength

    W
    WinComm Pro
    WebCompass
    WinFax Scanner
    WinProbe 95
    Write Your Congressman

    X
    X Tree

    I must say that Symantec and I have similiar tastes in software; as several of these products I have owned in the past.

    Another big outfit that is well known for Borg-like assimilation of software is M$ itself - maybe Redmond will put Symantec out of it's misery.

    Besides the resource hogging, removal problems and Trojan-like activity of Symantec's current lineup, there is that little firewall problem...

    I have heard that the technique that NIS uses has been compromised, but cannot find the reference to the supporting information just now. ;(

    I'm sorry my 1st post here is such a rant, but I'm disgusted with the various software brokerage houses, the inclusion of "Cinderella-ware" on new PCs, and the loss of valuable tools (Norton, Ad-Aware, etc.)

    Thankfully Spybot S&D remains dependable and reliable. I believe it and SpywareBlaster should be included with all Windows installation media and am genuinely amazed they are not.
    --CF

  8. #8
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    Exclamation

    At one time Symantec had wonderful products but they became just another resource hog. They have lost my support completely. I administer a number of networks and I currently use TrendMicro for real time protection in tandem with SpyBot. I do wish that SpyBot could jump to the next plateau and create a network version of the great tool they have. A centralized repository of definitions that lives on the server and thin client on each users machine in a domain controller environment. But yes, down with Symantec....rules were made to be followed, not open to interpretation. If the rules are wrong then there are proper channels to initiate change. If the rules state that a software package meets the criteria for malware, spyware, or simply PUPS, and a recourse is provided to prevent such programs from residing on computers, then I say eliminate them until they come into compliance with industry approved standards.

  9. #9
    Member of Team Spybot tashi's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SysEngineer View Post
    I do wish that SpyBot could jump to the next plateau and create a network version of the great tool they have. A centralized repository of definitions that lives on the server and thin client on each users machine in a domain controller environment.
    FYI:
    For the specific needs of corporate LANs/WANs we designed a tool called "Intranet Server for Spybot - Search & Destroy"
    http://www.safer-networking.ie/en/home/index.html
    Microsoft MVP. Consumer Security 2006-2014


  10. #10
    Senior Member Terminator's Avatar
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    Angry Why I hate Norton and Microsoft

    I've hated Norton for the last couple of years since they total my computer with NIS 2005. I don't think much to Microsoft either because of all the dogey updates that have caused all kinds of trouble for me over the years. Although I thoughly dislike Norton, Adding ANY NIS products to the definitions list would be corporate suicide since Synmantec would sue you to death and your good name would be dragged through the dirt. I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can and eventually people will decide to ditch NIS and its system destroying "Issues" (e.g. wreaking Outlook Express 6 and causing it to crash Windows when you try to shutdown the computer) for the better product that is Spybot.

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