View Full Version : Either Safer Networking Ltd. or Symantec leaving the Anti Spyware Coalition...
From March 2005 to December 2005, Symantec labeled Spybot-S&D as incompatible to Norton Ghost, and endangering backups, with no reason given to us in 19 months now. Since October 2005, Norton Internet Security has told users that Spybot-S&D would be incompatible and they had to remove Spybot-S&D.
Eleven months later, Symantec has given us just one explanation that was mostly invented and not fitting. Even though Symantec again promised changes, they have now released Norton Internet Security 2007 which again urges the user to uninstall Spybot-S&D.
We would have loved to work with them to remove any incompatibility, but although they were eager to tell their customers about these so-called 'incompatibilities', even threats of legal action could not persuade Symantec to give us any details. Well, actually they promised they would send us details, but those promises haven't been fullfilled for nearly a year. Is Symantecs Quality Assurance department so bad that they can't either find the old reports or re-test?
Both of us are members of the ASC, the Anti Spyware Coalition, a group of anti-spyware companies working together - in theory. The ASC has discussed Best Practices for half a year now. Sadly, this seems to only affect practices against malware creators, while coalition members are allowed to fight each other as much as they want.
If we created spyware instead of anti-spyware, we probably would laugh various body parts at seeing how one anti-spyware application removes the other.
Arbitration by the ASC has only resulted in broken promises by Symantec.
We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.
If you think that anti-spyware companies should fight spyware creators instead of each other, please send an email to ASC members of your choice, found here (http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/about/index.htm), and/or to the ASC itself, at asc@cdt.org.
Following that, thinking on how we could stop Symantec, we have two options: taking expensive legal steps, or behaving the same way as Symantec, accepting the removal of a competitor as a "legit" step.
Should we add detection for Norton Internet Security 2006 and 2007 as Malware or Possibly UnPopular Software (PUPS)?
* Yes, detect NIS completely!
* Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.
* No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.
* None of the above.
Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.
Please feel free to vote in this topic, and/or leave your comments, especially if you vote for option 4 (None of the above).
Hallo,
ich fühle mich da jetzt wenig angesprochen, zumal ich die Dienste von Symantec nicht in Anspruch nehme/nehmen werde, und dank des ausschließlichen Angebots für neuere Platformen nicht nehmen könnte. Wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, macht das f-secure mit ad-aware genauso. Ich hätte die Lavasoft Software erstmal deinstallieren müssen, und darauf würde ich genausowenig verzichten wollen. Nachdem ich weiß was Spybot bietet und ich sehr zufrieden bin, verstehe ich das jetzt nicht ganz.
Ich hoffe, und wünsche, dass Ihr stolz auf eure Software seid und euch nicht unterkriegen lasst, denn die, die Spybot kennen, die würden darauf nicht verzichten wollen!!
Mein Antivirenprogramm erkennt auch nicht alles, aber Spybot erkennt's!
Gruß
P.S. Wenn Symantec Malware auf seiner Software hat, dann gehört das auch in Spybot!
As a PC technician, I cannot support Symantec or Norton in any way.
I say detect them completely. Better to have a fool-proof method of removing Norton than using Symantec's uninstall utilities... ;)
Anyone who doesn't want to get rid of Norton can simply leave the dialog box unchecked. And Spybot S&D can warn users with Norton installed that it will show up in the list of results, similarly to the way it warns you about Ad-Aware compatibility issues.
Ich finde Spybot ist Klasse und Ihr solltet euch nicht unterkriegen lassen ich habe früher auch Symantec genutzt und war nicht grad begeistert...
Ich sag mal so wenn man schon in einer solchen Organisation ist, sollte man sich nicht gegenseitig runter machen nur weil man ein paar andere Vorstellungen hat wie etwas abzulaufen hat. Die Anti Spyware Koalition sollte auch an die Aufgabe denken, die PC Anwender zu schützen, zusammenzuarbeiten und gemeinsam Lösungen zu finden.
Das ganze macht den Eindruck als komme man sich im Kindergarten vor wo der eine dem anderen den Lutscher nicht gönnt.
Symantec think they are so great. I full support safer-netowrking and all their products.
Symantec needs to grow up or it will be killed!
Stand up for what is right!
CelticFerret
2006-09-29, 23:43
I registered so I could post this. Initially I agree with GT500. However it is my hope that Symantec will soon take care of itself, as it were. Let me explain:
I have used Norton Utilities across two platforms since I could back up my computer on <100 floppy disks; over a decade. I am saddened by what Symantec has done to the once great Norton diagnostic tools. Norton Utilities is destined to be buried, as Symantec has bought and buried so many fine tools in the past. Remember ProCOMM Plus? How about the Sygate firewall - the firewall product I used and recommended until recently. For the complete "Wall of Shame" list go to
Discontinued Products
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/custserv.nsf/0/bc307e40e841964d882570a7000bdb9a?OpenDocument
Or if you'd really rather not visit Symantec's javascript-infested site here is the list (I rather think it speaks for itself):
A
ACT! 2000
ACT! for Lotus Notes
ACT! For MAC
ACT! For the HP
ACT! For the Newton 1.06b
ACT! For the Psion
ACT! Mobile LinkC
C
Café’
Caffeine
Central Point AntiVirus (CPAV)
Central Point Backup
Commserver
CommSuite
CPAV
CrashDefender Deluxe 2.0
CU-See Me
CyberJack
C++
D
dbANYWHERE
Developer’s Advantage
Direct Access
DiskClone Corporate
DiskClone Extra Strengh
DiskDoubler
Disklock
DOS Fax
DOS Fax Pro
Hide details for EE
E
Echo Lake
Emergency Disk
Enterprise Backup
Enterprise Developer
Expert
Expose
F
FastBack
FaxLite for Macintosh
FaxPro for Macintosh
File Manager
Flinstones Screen Saver
Form Flow
G
Grandview
Greatworks
GuideMaker
H
Healthy PC
Healthy PC.com
I
Installer Pro
Intermission Screen Saver
Internet FastFind
Iware Connect 3.1
I-Zip
J
JITspeed
JustConnect
Just Enough Pascal
L
Landlord
M
Mac Tools
Merge/Convert
Mobile Essentials
More PC Tools for DOS/Windows
Multi-Scope
N
NAS/NASEE
NetSatisFAXtion
NetWork Administration
Norton 2000 1.0
Norton Administrator for Networks
Norton Antivirus Corporate Edition 6.0
Norton Backup
Norton Commander 1.0 for OS/2
Norton Commander 5.0 for DOS
Norton Commander for Windows 95
Norton Crashguard
Norton Desktop
Norton Desktop Administrator
Norton Disklock
Norton Editor
Norton Ghost 5.1
Norton Ghost for Netware 2.0
Norton Navigator
Norton NT Tools
Norton Safe on the Web
Norton Secret Stuff
Norton Speed Disk
Norton Web Security
Norton Uninstall Deluxe
Norton Your Eyes Only
Norton Zip Rescue
O
On Target
Optlink
Opus and Bill Screen Saver
P
Partition-It 1.02
PC Handyman
PC Telecommute
PC Tools
PC TuneUp
Perform
Planning and Budgeting for Windows 95
ProComm RapidRemote
Protect Your Site
Pyro!
Q
Qemm 97 9.0
Quarterdeck Utility Pack 1.0
Q&A
R
RealHelp Extra Strengh
RealHelp 1.0
Remove-IT 98 4.0
Report Maker Windows
Retriever
S
SAM
SAM Administrator
Speed Tools
SpeedDrive
SQZ!
Suitcase
Suites
S.A.F.E
Symantec AntiVirus for Palm OS
Symantec Mobile Essentials
Symantec Mobile Update 1.0
T
TalkWorks
Think C
Think Pascal
Think Reference
TimeLine
Hide details for VV
Visual Café
VisualPage
VirusSweep 2.0
VirusSweep Extra Strength
V
Visual Café
VisualPage
VirusSweep 2.0
VirusSweep Extra Strength
W
WinComm Pro
WebCompass
WinFax Scanner
WinProbe 95
Write Your Congressman
X
X Tree
I must say that Symantec and I have similiar tastes in software; as several of these products I have owned in the past.
Another big outfit that is well known for Borg-like assimilation of software is M$ itself - maybe Redmond will put Symantec out of it's misery.
Besides the resource hogging, removal problems and Trojan-like activity of Symantec's current lineup, there is that little firewall problem...
I have heard that the technique that NIS uses has been compromised, but cannot find the reference to the supporting information just now. ;(
I'm sorry my 1st post here is such a rant, but I'm disgusted with the various software brokerage houses, the inclusion of "Cinderella-ware" on new PCs, and the loss of valuable tools (Norton, Ad-Aware, etc.)
Thankfully Spybot S&D remains dependable and reliable. I believe it and SpywareBlaster should be included with all Windows installation media and am genuinely amazed they are not.
--CF
SysEngineer
2006-09-30, 07:33
At one time Symantec had wonderful products but they became just another resource hog. They have lost my support completely. I administer a number of networks and I currently use TrendMicro for real time protection in tandem with SpyBot. I do wish that SpyBot could jump to the next plateau and create a network version of the great tool they have. A centralized repository of definitions that lives on the server and thin client on each users machine in a domain controller environment. But yes, down with Symantec....rules were made to be followed, not open to interpretation. If the rules are wrong then there are proper channels to initiate change. If the rules state that a software package meets the criteria for malware, spyware, or simply PUPS, and a recourse is provided to prevent such programs from residing on computers, then I say eliminate them until they come into compliance with industry approved standards.
I do wish that SpyBot could jump to the next plateau and create a network version of the great tool they have. A centralized repository of definitions that lives on the server and thin client on each users machine in a domain controller environment.
FYI: :)
For the specific needs of corporate LANs/WANs we designed a tool called "Intranet Server for Spybot - Search & Destroy"
http://www.safer-networking.ie/en/home/index.html
Terminator
2006-09-30, 11:54
I've hated Norton for the last couple of years since they total my computer with NIS 2005. I don't think much to Microsoft either because of all the dogey updates that have caused all kinds of trouble for me over the years. Although I thoughly dislike Norton, Adding ANY NIS products to the definitions list would be corporate suicide since Synmantec would sue you to death and your good name would be dragged through the dirt. I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can and eventually people will decide to ditch NIS and its system destroying "Issues" (e.g. wreaking Outlook Express 6 and causing it to crash Windows when you try to shutdown the computer) for the better product that is Spybot.
Ich halte es für eine absolute Frechheit von Symantec, Nutzern die Deinstallation von Spybot zu empfehlen. Vor allem kann ich deren Haltung der "Nichtkommunikation" überhaupt nicht nachvollziehen.
Ich halte nicht viel von Symantec... also wenn sie sich nicht ändern, muss man eben zu härteren Methoden greifen...
Eine "juristische Schlacht" halte ich aufgrund des großen Geldaufwandes und der langen Dauer bis ein Urteil vorliegt, für unnötig.
Macht weiter so mit Spybot, es ist ein sehr gutes Programm... :bigthumb: auch wenn sich manch großer Konzern querstellt...
robinbro
2006-09-30, 12:46
I have just voted in the poll to "Detect NIS completely".
I recommended and installed Norton Internet Security 2005 for several people, and bought it myself, after reading a review of security tools which praised it.
I found it intrusive and irritating. The number of pop-up's it generated while I was on-line, and particularly when filling in forms, made it unusable if you wanted to get anything done.
I ended up phoning Symantec and asking for my money back. I found they had a web page specifically for disgruntled customers to claim a refund. I think that says a lot. I was left embarrassed at having recommended it.
In comparison I have found Spybot S & D excellent. I think Symantec's non-cooperation with Safer Networking is deplorable. Safer Networking are addressing a serious problem by providing free security software (that works) to the home user, the user often with little or no knowledge of security issues and the most vunerable.
The way I see this is, we have a vendor of a commercial and in my opinion poorer tool, one I personally felt would put people off bothering with online security for life, damaging the reputation of a a tool that I feel is far superior as part of a self-selected security suite. A tool which also encourages security by being supplied free for download to home users, for which I think Safer Networking deserve praise.
(If Symantec ever read this, I'd love you to post a reply and convince me my personal opinions are wrong in the paragraph above, and give reasons why Norton Internet Security 200X should be considered better than a combination of Windows XP's own Restore plus ZoneLabs, Grisoft, Safer Networking and Lavasoft products.)
You have my full support Safer Networking.
I think it would benefit mankind not just to remove NIS but all other Symantex products as well.
robinbro
2006-09-30, 14:22
Hmmm... Just read Terminator's message and think he has a good point. I would not like to see Safer Networking damaged or diverted by a prolonged legal battle with Symantec.
I think my sentiments on this business are obvious from the first message I posted. I for one recommend Spybot S&D to anyone who will stand still long enough to listen. I think I am in good company here with the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper and, if memory serves, Fred Langa. I would never again recommend a Symantec product after my personal experience.
I will do my bit by continuing to recommend Safer Networking's Spybot S&D. From the other posted replies there does not seem to be much support for Symantec. Perhaps word of mouth recommendations from Spybot users, and mention of Symantec's behavior in trying to deny users a valuable aid to personal security on the net will result in Symantec having shot themselves in the foot. I will spread the news among my contacts.
I voted the way I strongly feel from a what's right and what's wrong point of view, but considering the practical side Terminator makes good sense to me. Developing ever better versions of Spybot is positive, fighting a legal battle with Symantec is not.
I believe Safer Networking will find there is very strong support for their product whatever Symantec may choose to say or do.
The ASC and the members of it can not be very impressed with Symantec over this, I don't think the computing community will be either.
Briansaab
2006-09-30, 17:04
I have been using SpyBot for a while now on my own families PCs. It has now assisted in rescuing 3 friends PCs that had become unusable.
By all means detect some NIS files and wake up a few people but avoid getting into expensive legal stuff except as last resort.
You have my thanks, and my donation, keep up the good work.
In the last week I have had to do two rebuilds on computers, thanks to Symantec. My clients had downloaded and installed their new 2007 edition. Only to see their computer continuously rebooting. This problem is not new with Norton. The programme is so invasive that it loves itself and wants to take over the computer.
The solution is after the rebuild; install Spybot S&D and AVG7 to protect yourself! This is what I recommend to my clients. I have not got a complaint yet from them.
Sorry Symantec, I was an avid supporter and user of your products. But not any more, I feel you have crossed the line over an individual’s privacy. In so far as what a person can and cannot install on their computer.
Most users of Symantec products are new to the world of computers. They believe the ad hype. If their pc came loaded with Norton then it must be a good and trustworthy software. Why else would it be there along with all the other well-known, big corp products.
I agree that Patrick, et al should use their energies in making Spybot S & D better. Staying in the Anti-Spyware Coalition depends upon the value of membership or benefits received. Perhaps the Coalition is Symantec. . . .
My concern is that this is the first step in either eliminating or swallowing up Safer Networking Ltd, and thus another excellent application disappears.
In agreement with ''robinbro'': ''Developing ever better versions of Spybot is positive, fighting a legal battle with Symantec is not.''
gdhopcroft
2006-10-01, 08:48
There is a long history of Symantec products being "incompatible" with other competitive products, all the way back to (and probably before) the red box v yellow box battles between both McAfee and themselves.
It's interesting to note that the Support staff for both those companies know exactly where to find the tools to completely remove each other's products from a system, after neither of their Uninstallers will actually do so. Hmmm, a little like M$ or IBM but on smaller scales.
This is (yet) another sad case of the larger product intimidating the better product and being able to do so with impunity, due to their greater financial capability to do so. Stuff civilised behaviour, survival of the fittest, or the biggest, is the only criterion ... NOT!!!
I voted Detect & Remove NIS completely, but (1) because I have taken this Poll in the spirit if mischief with which I think it was intended. :fear: :bigthumb: , and (2) because Symantec pi55 me off mightily. :sick:
As others have said, it would be a pointless action, as it would only lead to the Yellow Elephant trampling all over Patrick and the Team's altruistic intentions, by throwing all the dollars they've extorted from computer users over the years into legal action, rather than using it to make their software play better with all our computers.
Quite frankly, that would be a waste of everone's time, efforts and last shreds of remaining sanity, and I suspect none of us want that.
juckjones
2006-10-01, 09:48
I stand by Safer Networking and their great software, Spybot Search & Destroy! I had been using this product since 2003 and I have no complaints nor issues about it.
I have never been a fan or user of Symantec products. Norton Utilities and NAV were great programs back then until...(sigh). Just do No.1 as I have voted!:mad:
I have been reading these posts with curiosity. I use NIS 2006 since almost a year, I use Spybot S&D for some years and I use Norton System Works since 2000 (now NSW 2006). I have never had the problems you mentioned above, i.e. Symantec advising me to uninstall Spybot S&D.
I was planning to upgrade to version 2007 of NIS but you all make me doubt.
Is there a big difference with NIS 2006? And how about NSW? Please advise.
Thank you for any reply.
Fire_Phoenix
2006-10-01, 15:12
Check this out, if you take the "Is Windows a virus?" argument and replace the word "Windows" with "Nortons", it still fits perfectly.
Is Nortons a virus?
No, Nortons is not a virus. Here's what viruses do:
They replicate quickly - okay, Nortons does that.
Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as they do so - okay, Nortons does that.
Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay, Nortons does that too.
Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Nortons does that, too.
Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Nortons, too.
Until now it seems Nortons is a virus but there are fundamental differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.
So Nortons is not a virus.
It's a bug. :spider:
[/end funny quote]
I'd say that Nortons deserves to have its arse kicked. They're arrogant enough not to realise that their competitors are, performance-wise, beating them. They'd be scanners such as McAfee and PcCillin (Trend Micro) just to name two, there are more (although McAfee probably has some resource drawbacks as well). Not only that, but they seem to have little respect for the others on their side. Not on. I say either detect them completely or show how weak their virus scanner really is by creating a virus that trashes their servers, hehehe. (that suggestion is a joke, btw. That'd probably be quite unwise on your behalf)
Yes, it's true. I AM using Nortons at the moment. But as soon as I get my arse up and buy a better, more resource efficient scanner, it's going.
Ouch!
:p:
I must renew my subscriptions in 30 days and I saw what they charge me for it.
These virus definitions should arrive wrapped in gold, as far as the price is concerned.
I`ve voted 1:Detect NIS Completely!
Norton:Must pay
Spybot-S&D:Free
Norton:Big size:798 MB
Spybot-S&D:Small size:20 MB
Norton:Non-protected quarantines
Spybot-S&D-Protected quarantines
Norton:Small log info
Spybot-S&D-Big log info
spirit_in_exile
2006-10-01, 20:33
Spybot is a fantastic tool, make no mistake. Symantec's NIS is unable to give the end-user the level of control and options Spybot offers in dealing with and, in some cases, preventing malware.
However, there are certain users out there that think Spybot is a replacement for real-time and on-demand detection suites such as NIS. It isn't. Mostly, it's a removal tool for after-the-fact infection cleaning.
It would definately be inaccurate to classify NIS as malware. It's simply poorly made software, which informed users who may need the resources it notoriously gobbles-up simply will not tolerate. I won't advocate any other suites here. It's up to the user to care enough to make their own decision based on research, and unfortunately, some expensive trial and error, too. But there are far faster, as-complete or better security suites out there, and they don't take over your PC, or cost an arm and a leg. And these competitors play nice with such useful and benevolent tools as Spybot.
Keep up the good work, and if the average internet sheep take heed to NIS's misdiagnosis, then so much the better: Their ignorance is best removed from our digital midst by the PC troubles that will come from NIS itself - as well as infections Spybot could have properly removed for them - crippling their machines and getting them off the net.
CalvinOZ
2006-10-02, 01:37
In the last week I have had to do two rebuilds on computers, thanks to Symantec. My clients had downloaded and installed their new 2007 edition. Only to see their computer continuously rebooting. This problem is not new with Norton. The programme is so invasive that it loves itself and wants to take over the computer.
The solution is after the rebuild; install Spybot S&D and AVG7 to protect yourself! This is what I recommend to my clients. I have not got a complaint yet from them.
Sorry Symantec, I was an avid supporter and user of your products. But not any more, I feel you have crossed the line over an individual’s privacy. In so far as what a person can and cannot install on their computer.
I fully support what Niall said: The original products written for the IBM PC by Peter Norton were first class and ground breaking technology in their time. I have several of Peter's books and found him an excellent teacher - somebody who OBVIOUSLY really knew what he was doing. Unfortunately, once Symantec got hold of the Norton name, the rot well and truly set in. The Symantec suite of products are now garbage - overly invasive bloatware.
I feel VERY sorry for Peter - having his good name and reputation totally TRASHED by the rubbish being sold by Symantec under his name
I also recommend a combination of Sybot S&D and AVG as current "Best Practise" installation for dealing with Malware !
Calvin.
DaveWeigel
2006-10-02, 04:10
]I just joined the forum and agree with comments about NIS and Microsoft. I used NIS for several years and got disgusted with it. It was pretty difficult to root out but found that Tenebril Uninstaller did a nice job of that.
I now use BitDefender 9.0, Webroot Spysweeper and Zone Alarm for my anti--virus and anti-malware protection and am planning to install SpyBot S&D. I have already installed it in computers of people who I help.
As for Microsoft, I use XP Professional and will avoid the Vista bloatware as long as possible. It's then on to Mac or UBUNTU.
I've been using SB SnD since time began and would not think of powering up without it. I am on my third upgrade of NIS and am getting pretty disgusted with it. I'll ca+d NIS in a heartbeat before even considering forsaking my faithful Spybot. I think I see Bitdefender over the horizon. :red:
Then I have a simple question: what would you people advise instead of NIS? You cannot say Spybot S&D because that works AFTER the fact, and I use it a lot and yes, I love it too. I have to have a reliable firewall and antivirus to keep nasty stuff from entering. I don't mind paying for it.
And what shall I install instead of Norton System Works? I rely on this program to keep my computer running smoothly. I have had no need to reinstall Windows for a year now, thanks to NSW?
Keep up the good work, and if the average internet sheep take heed to NIS's misdiagnosis, then so much the better: Their ignorance is best removed from our digital midst by the PC troubles that will come from NIS itself - as well as infections Spybot could have properly removed for them - crippling their machines and getting them off the net.
I find this an offensive remark. I thought forums like these were meant to help and advise each other. If you pose like an elite group far above the "average internet sheep" then I am in the wrong place here and I will pose my question elsewhere.
Thank you.
I agree with Chikago - while it is true that using computers especially connected to the Internet requires some kind of responsibility, the goal has to be to educate those users who're not aware of the risks, not to expel them from online life.
I do also about Norton products past. Norton Commander is something I still use - in the clone version of Midnight Commander - in everydays work, and couldn't do without it.
After just having read the PC World article, I want to repeat one important thing that's often pushed back in discussions: warning about existing incompatibilities is a very important thing, since it helps users to understand the situation better when problems arise. We are just complaining about incompatibility warnings when they cannot be proven, and there don't even exist the smallest protocol of them on Symantecs side.
Regarding the definition - Spyware or Potentially Unwanted Technology - that's how the ASC defines software that reduces system security.
By the way, now that the harm is done and any printed box of NIS will show this warning for the next 12 months, Symantec of course said "lets continue discussions again".
Samantha
2006-10-02, 11:08
Jeder halbwegs versierte Mensch weiß, das eine DFW nichts auf dem lokalem System zu suchen hat. Und wenn dann dieses Produkt auch noch versucht, Spybot auszuhebeln, dann ist das richtig traurig.
Mein Rat: noch mal versuchen, mit SYMANTEC zu reden, vielleicht gibt es ja noch eine Lösung. Ansonsten in Zukunft 2 Spybot Versionen anbieten, die eine läßt NIS drin und die andere entfernt NIS radikal. Ich persönlich würde mich heute schon für die 2. Variante entscheiden.
--Samantha--
Ross Boyd
2006-10-02, 12:03
I am really angry that Symantec are choosing a non-cooperative approach to solving this 'compatibility' problem with your product Spybot.
I'm a PC service technician working for a Computer shop. We service about 100 PCs per month. About 75% of these are badly virus/spyware afflicted. Of the 75% about 40%-50% are running a Symantec/Norton security tool.... either NAV, NIS or NSW.
Without fail we counsel our customers to immediately replace Symantec products as we have continual first hand experience that they are inadequate and almost invariably the cause of performance and software issues.
Products we recommend are Eset's NOD32 - not just because of the excellent advanced heuristic protection but also the incredibly light footprint and high performance of the AV engine. (No, I am not affiliated with ESET, I just know that it works. :-)
But getting back to the Symantec issue, I would advise avoiding the legal avenues unless you have a bottomless bank balance. If Symantec won't play fair it would be great to see Spybot develop its own Symantec product removal tools... and I'm sure they will prove superior to Symantec's inhouse removal tool they ironically developed to help users uninstall their own crappy products.
Thankyou for Spybot... fantastic product!
Ross Boyd
Interbit Computing
I too have become disencanted with Symantec. I recently tried to report a problem that I thought was a false positive. I got nowrere with their email support.
I have 110 days left on my current susscription. At that time I am goiing to switch. Right now, I am considering AVAST 4 professional edition.
Does anyone have a recomendation on AVAST?
Thanks
FRank C
ALBERT HRV
2006-10-02, 22:09
Bonjour !
this my first post here..I have just register to vote at this pool..
I am a long time user of spybot, on my pc's ad spreading it as far as it is possible among friends.. go on, get them out of use,
they really deserve it ...
And a very big thank to all the team for your fabulous job
Albert
Terminator
2006-10-02, 22:13
I've been using AVAST! Free edition for the last year and the only problem I ever had with it was when I had the NetVeda Firewall installed, once I got rid of that particular firewall and went back to Zone Alarm i've not had a single problem. For the best protection I use Avast! Free Edition 4.7.892 (Latest Version which only needs a free re-registration once a year), Zone Alarm Free 6.5.737.000 (latest version), Spyware blaster 3.5.1, Ad-Aware Pro 1.06, Firefox 1.5.0.7 (Latest version), Spybot 1.4, EULAlyza 1.1 (To scan EULAs). McAfee Site Advisor, Message Defender (to prevent Messenger spam) and the Firefox version of the Google Toolbar for the phishing and homepage protection.
Use this combination and you can't go far wrong.
planet_rob
2006-10-03, 00:59
Norton is a resource hog. Things like that are malware in my opinion.
omega_shadow
2006-10-03, 02:22
completely remove all symantec products from a computer, and while your at it have S&D remove windows and install linux, a much more stable OS :p
I used to use S&D all the time back when I was a Windoze user (over 4 years ago) the only thing that kept my computer clean was S&D. All sysmantec does is open a computer up to infection. And I say if they want to play hardball like microcraps then play hardball. Hit them where it hurts and get the word out about their buggy software. It's working for linux which has a larger userbase then ever, it can work for you guys. Have at them!!!
kermidge
2006-10-03, 06:34
I had to register just to say that after using Spybot S&D for over three years, and Norton AV for less than one, my opinion oughta be plain.
S&D now runs on three of my computers, Symantec on none.
[And, yes, I run Ashampoo Firewall (free), NOD32, Anti-Vir (now Avira), or AVG, along with Spyware Blaster, Spyware Guard, A-Squared Free and a few other utilities.]
I did write a note to Center for Democracy and Technology.
Good luck, Patrick.
Briansaab
2006-10-03, 12:23
Ouch!
:p:
I must renew my subscriptions in 30 days and I saw what they charge me for it.
These virus definitions should arrive wrapped in gold, as far as the price is concerned.
Why not take a look at AVG Free via http://free.grisoft.com/.
I use this in combination with Spybot S&D and Spyware Blaster (http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html).
If you are happy with the free verdsion AVG has a Professional product which is cheaper to support per annum than Norton.
I just register after reading this shameless acting from Symantec against Spybot.
I like many have been using Spybot for 5 years now and recommend it to everyone of my customers. I support more than 300 PCs, and have customer base ot about 50.
It is not coincidence that Symantec is outrated, 10 out of 13 PCs a fix used Symantec's products, however I have not have a single customer complaining after I install Spybot on their PCs. I would recommend only to the developers of Spybot to make the interface hidden whenever it starts. or to have the choice of hiding it from viewing.
I have found that Spybot works flawlessly with McAfee, ZoneAlarm, AVG, and AdAware, so how come Symantec claims it is incompatible with? Looks to me that Symantec maybe playing a dangerous game of being the only one, well that does not work at all, remember the "blue frog" that claim to be able to stop all attacks, it fell to DoS attacks to their servers.
Having 2 or more programs working together is the best chance to deter attacks.
If Symantec does not want to cooperate I support the motion of have a detection and removal tool for it.
In the name of all my customers and mine as well I just want to said Big thanks!
I too have become disencanted with Symantec. I recently tried to report a problem that I thought was a false positive. I got nowrere with their email support.
I have 110 days left on my current susscription. At that time I am goiing to switch. Right now, I am considering AVAST 4 professional edition.
Does anyone have a recomendation on AVAST?
Thanks
FRank C
Absolutely. It's my favorite for starting virus removal on heavily infected PCs. ;)
Of course, I use the free version. They have the same scanning engine, and the free version can do the boot-time-scan as well on WIndows 2000 and XP.
. . . Regarding the definition - Spyware or Potentially Unwanted Technology - that's how the ASC defines software that reduces system security.
I review/analyze a fair number of log files helping users remove infections. The greatest majority of the infected computers I see have Norton product(s). The second most frequent is McAfee. There are a few with AVG or Avast and almost never NOD. I think that in itself is an indicator of the effectiveness of NAV and just one reason why I would not choose it for my computer. A bit off topic, but a second reason I would not select NAV is based on the results of this study on What Really Slows Windows Down (http://www.thepcspy.com/articles/other/what_really_slows_windows_down/5).
Norton isn't the only company to pull this stunt. This summer McAfee was telling their subscribers to uninstall Ad-Aware (http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1207&view=findpost&p=8013). At least McAfee finally responded to protests and updated VirusScan 11 (Online Subscriptions/Boxed Product) (http://forums.mcafeehelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=89522) on 30 August:
Several products that were previously marked as incompatible will no longer be flagged (this includes Ad Aware)
By the way, now that the harm is done and any printed box of NIS will show this warning for the next 12 months, Symantec of course said "lets continue discussions again".
That is exemplary of a company I would never want to be associated with. By instructing customers to uninstall a highly respected product, they are acting in a most unprofessional manner.
I hope others in the community join me in adding their voice -- whether here in this thread, blog about it (I did) or if a Norton customer, complain to Symantec. If they aren't going to get renewals, perhaps they will continue the lines of communication so this issue can finally be resolved.
I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can
IMHO, I too agree with Terminator. (Even though revenge is sweet.) And professionally attempt to communicate with Symantec.
Personally I'm not familiar with Symantec's suites. But I did have Norton Personal Firewall and AntiVirus and had problems. I was stuck in between, Symantec blamed MS (windows) and MS blamed Symantec. I don't care whose "fault" it is, just make your programs work. I now use free AVG, free Zonealarm, Spybot, AdAware, and a couple others, and all has been well.
There are all kinds of complaints with Symantec products in most forums. If Symantec don't open their eyes and ears and listen to their customers, they will eventually do themselves in, as others have said here.
Keep up the great work.:crowned:
AlexanderBond
2006-10-04, 10:03
I really wonder why Symantec behaves in the way they do.
They buy everything, put their name and a fu**ed Uninstaller on it and stop supporting the product.
I can't understand people who support them
At one time Symantec had a great antivirus product for managed business networks. This was largely built from the acquisition of the well known Norton family of products and the less well known Intel LANProtect which provided the management interface. For a few years this was a great combination.
However, as many have already stated, Symantec just kept acquiring and adding products to this 'suite' that eventually became bloated and difficult to install, as well as uninstall. Where the antispyware components of this product came from I don't really know, but it hasn't been a very successful portion of the product from what I've seen and heard.
Now Microsoft has gotten into the protection suite business, in large part to try and produce something that will simply do the job required, without all the bloat and complexity that have crippled the major suite products from Symantec and others. Whether they are successful themselves doesn't matter, since just the Microsoft name is enough to have a large effect on the bottom line of Symantec, McAfee and the entire industry. Again, this is partially what Microsoft intended, to force these organizations to compete to produce products that people really need and which will provide the real protection they've been lacking. Personally, I don't feel bad for those who can't and won't survive, since they've taken lots of money for little value already.
The reality is that this has all started a 'protection' war that has been building over the last two years as Microsoft acquired both antivirus and antispyware products to jump start their development and then built Windows Defender antispyware and Windows Live OneCare (home) and Microsoft Forefront Client Security (business) versions of AV protection suites.
Now that these have or are about to release, along with Internet Explorer 7 and Defender for free, it's all about to hit the fan. This was all timed to occur after the end of Microsoft support for the Windows 98 OS family so only Windows 2000/XP and the soon to be released Windows Vista would require support. This radically changes the support profile since these are all protected mode Operating Systems and also vastly reduces the range of support issues.
Where this leaves Spybot S&D is a big question, since many believe that only the big suites can survive in this new environment. However, since Spybot is light and easy to transport and install, it's really more of a tool than most others. This allows it to be used in 'quick fix' situations which the large suites can't perform and in fact these suites really need a stable PC with no malware present before they are installed. So Spybot S&D actually has a niche for both this and other purposes, including the older OS versions and other cases where complete suites aren't desirable.
As for Symantec, they are simply a distraction that the Spybot Team shouldn't pay any attention to, since that's how Symantec is treating Spybot S&D. Worrying that Symantec is telling customers to remove Spybot S&D will gain nothing and simply waste time, which is exactly their intent. Team Spybot should log their displeasure with both Symantec and the official bodies and here as they have. However, the current environment is changing so fast that only those who change with it are going to survive. Team Spybot needs to concentrate all efforts on this so they will be one of the few to remain relavant in this new world.
Put simply, Symantec is a distraction, but only if you let them.
Bitman
Once I had to format my drive to get rid of all the Symantec junk when I uninstalled Norton. The option was literally hundreds of registry edits to get it out.
I think it is spyware. I'd love for Spybot to find it and clean it out!
Mike Nielson
2006-10-05, 05:32
I've been using Norton since 1984 when it was Peter Norton's Utilities, a very good product. Since Symantec took it over, it's been going downhill. Although it's still a good product, Symantec has gotten WAY too full of itself, and the product is not THAT good. I'm at a point where I can no longer recommend it to anyone else.
Symantec has gone the way of Microsoft, bloated and a stumbling juggernaut. Litigation is useless. Time is wasted, money is lost, and only the lawyers get anything out of it.
Symantec set the standard. So play the game as they've laid down the rules. Let Spybot declare an incompatibility with Symantec. At least Spybot is free, while Symantec charges out the ... well, you get the drift. And Spybot found problems on my system of which Norton is blissfully unaware.
Attilitus
2006-10-05, 08:24
I have a friend who had installed Norton and cannot completely uninstall or disable its functions. It is preventing him from using various programs and srtest.com oddly enough.
You guys should really add in the option to fully remove all Norton files and registry edits as it is downright impossible to completely wipe it off the system without a full HD wipe.
iNsuRRecTiON
2006-10-05, 23:32
Hey,
yes, that's very bad practise from Symantec and yes, you should add an completely detection and possibility to remove all files, entries and registry infos.
To strenghten your position on that, you should release an additional external standalone app/tool, which don't need to be installed and can detect and remove NIS completely! :)
I fully support you on this point, I had used an Norton product last time as Norton AV 2000 comes out and Peter Norton (head developer, producer of the great initial Norton product line, after Peter Norton leaves Symantec, their products turns to shit...) leaves Symantec, because of their bad practises.
After that I had switched to another AV soft.
I had already used many, like McAfee, the great Dr. Solomon (best and strongest solution/protection/detection to that date/by then..) (regrated by McAfee/NAI), great and strong Kaspersky and now I use NOD32 (from Eset, http://www.nod32.de, http://www.nod32.eu, http://www.nod32.com) for 2 years and will renew my license for another 3 years, soon.
Good luck and thx in advance!
best regards,
iNsuRRecTiON
FiddlinMomma
2006-10-06, 00:27
Hi all,
I say keep Norton/Symantec on the :spider: list. :p:
I stopped using Symantec products some time ago. Norton takes over everything on your PC. Especially the System Suites. With those you can't do hardly ANYTHING without it poking it's nose into what you are doing, and that is very annoying. :sick:
Norton strews it's junk everywhere. Even just the Anti Virus alone leaves numerous files on the PC to be located & deleted after an uninstall, (look for folders of both Norton & Symantec), plus so many entries in the registry that they are almost impossible to get rid of. You have to have a special registry program for digging deep, & knowledge of the registry to get them, & even then you may not get all of them because you have to be real careful to make sure the entry is specific to Norton/Symantec only, or you will :oops: Plus you have to look for registry entries under both Norton, & Symantec.
Companies like Symantec count on the PC illiterate, who know little to zilch about getting rid of their junk they put on your PC.
Down with Symantec/Norton. :ninja:
FiddlinMomma
wulfbear
2006-10-06, 08:53
I agree with much of what has been said. I also registered for the forum just to vote in the poll and respond to this. As with many others, I used to use Norton Utilities, etc. from way back when, but have not used any Norton/Symantec for a few years now, as it has, in my opinion, been ruined.
I am using Spybot-S&D and a few other programs to combat spyware, ads, pop-ups, viruses, etc. now, all of which are free, and very effective. Even having next to no money, and an 8 1/2 year old PC, I've still found no problems running Spybot-S&D, or indeed finding useful and effective free or inexpensive programs like it. I recognize that some 'expensive' programs must be bought to have true effectiveness, but I wish more programs took the classic approach that Spybot-S&D does, and wrote tighter programming code like the "old days".
Programs like these, ironically perhaps, are worth their weight in gold. :crowned:
RollaCoasta
2006-10-06, 09:29
I voted "Yes, detect NIS completely!", but somehow more sarcastic. Sarcastic, because like some other guys here mentioned already, and most of us might be aware of, MONEY rules the world. And the non-flexible yellow giant made already so much of it, selling the yellow-boxed pc-tranquilizers, that it might be easier to win the lottery jackpot than to win against them in court.
Ok, if you look how difficult - if not impossible - it is, to do a really clean uninstall of the yellow crap, they would deserve to find them self on the detection rules. And it's really a pity that so many hardware-producers deliver their machines bundled with this junk.
An open battle, Symantic vs. Safer Networking? :sick: I think, the risk is to high that Goliath would trample down David, just with his moneytary background.
"But as the harder they come, the harder they fall" Jimmy Cliff sang long time ago, and so I'm shure, Sym-tic will also do. I'm not happy about the fact that MS is pretending now (soon), they would protect purchasers systems of the crap that comes through the holes which they themself left open. But that could be a turning point for some of the money-collectors who promise security but bring instability.
Dinos disappeared because them were not flexible enough. And so it's also in business just the question, when do they reach their critical mass?
To all those people here who still use the yellow junk but think about a change. Yes YOU are the power, that can change Sym-tic's behaviour! Cause Money is the only language the speak. Don't buy it, and tell everybody else, also to use better alternatives!
Get rid of the yellow tranquilizer:
clean your system of all the leftovers it (yellow crap) leaves there (or best do directly a fresh install);
use an other, more effectiv less bloated, av-scanner (some are mentioned already, my favourites are Kaspersky or Avira AntiVir);
get a simple hardware router - it doesn't cost more than a one-year subsription to sym-crap but works for years and the firewall in it is not such a cheat than all those desktop-/personal-"firewalls";
(this is one of the most important points, as like the next one!) Use an alternative, "non-activeX", browser - e.g. Mozilla Firefox or Opera, with the right configurations;
keep your system, browser, javaRE, apps etc. always uptodate;
don't misuse user-accounts with administrator-rights for internet trips and other everyday's jobs! they are called administrator-accounts/-rights because they are there to administer your computer - and nothing else;
and then the very most important - use your brain when you surf in-the-net, read your email or install new software;
After all this, the above mentioned non-yellow av-scanner, together with Spybot S&D (with its preemptive tools like immunisation, sdhelper, hostlist and teatimer) will be just like your safety-belts and airbags in your car. You use them preemptiv, but with the intention, that they possibly never have to run in action!
Additionally with an image of your clean installation and regular backups, there'll be then no need to slowdown your pc with 2 GB of "protective" apps (yes, computers can also do other things than to only protect themself).
@Patrick and Team Spybot,
hey guys, be strong and stay conscious in what your doing. And a BIG THX for your great tool/s! :bighug:
Greetings
RollaCoasta
(who fortunately got rid of the yellow crap two years ago :D: )
Like others here, I registered for posting on this topic. (And BTW, why force a minimum of 5 letters for user name? I use 4 on most boards, and would never remember this user name in the future.)
I think that detecting Norton as spyware is stupid. It'd make Spybot S&D look like it's malfunctioning. Worse, it'd make Norton completely correct in urging its removal -- by your own criterion. (Since removing Norton impairs system security by definition, regardless of what you think of Norton's effectiveness.) In short, by claiming that what Norton is doing is wrong, and then doing back the exact same thing, you'd be going for meaningless revenge, and benefitting people in no way at all.
If you just detect Norton as spyware, people will not know what the issue is, and will just think Spybot is defective. I have no problem, on the other hand, with a dialogue in your software which mentions the issue specifically. Go ahead, tell people about the issue with Norton. Refer them to the discussion on your site. Let them make their own decision -- which will probably be in your favour.
So a specific detection of Norton, a message about it, and the option to not show this dialogue in the future, seems like a good solution to me.
As for legal channels, I won't suggest that. The link for sending e-mail to the ASC is a positive measure, and I'm sure some people will e-mail them. Some people might blog about this, or post news on tech sites. Public awareness can be a powerful force, which is why I think notifying users of the situation is the better solution.
I Think that spybot has to add an completely detect and remove all files, entries and registry info, but I would show the 'Norton'-problem in a different window and give a few links to other programs who do the same as Norton, but are better.
(Like 'for a: virusscanner you can use avast,
firewall you can use ZoneAlarm', ...) (or other good programs).
I used Norton, once too... But I did a complet uninstall (I'm still finding registry keys of it and it would be nice if spybot found them for me.), because it slowed down my computer too much. So I installed another virusscanner/firewall/... . The new virusscanner (avast), works much faster, didn't cost as much and found ... a few virusses that norton didn't found.
Since then I recomend Norton only when you want to throw away money and important system resources...
Sticky Mick
2006-10-06, 20:09
I say play them at their own game.
I don't like NIS anyway. I installed it when I built my new PC last year, decided it wasn't for me (took ages to boot my PC, and was too slow).
I uninstalled it and tried to install the gear that I use now:
Spybot S&D
AntiVir
Zonealarm
and A-Squared.
None of them would install. I found out that it was something left behind by NIS. I e-mailed Symantec and their reply was "Well you'll just have re-install it" Had to re-install XP in the end, because they wouldn't tell me how to clean up my system.
Symantec only needs to keep going the way they have been lately, to be the means of their own destruction. When norton goback had issues with Spybot on one of my computers, the solution was simple I uninstalled norton system works,including norton goback!In my opinion, Symantec products (since 2004) have not been a good thing to put on your computer, especialy if you want to use it. Newer symantec products cause slowdowns, crashes, and shutdown problems. The net result is that I, like many other people have found somthing better, that will actually work with newer operating systems and computers.
Anyone willingly running Norton, even for free, are probably too far off the mark to be concerned whether SSAD is a good or a bad thing to delete from their system.
In my opinion,SSAD would be better served by continuing to market its products and capabilities successfully rather than risking expensive litigation against such a large and entrenched organisation.
David did once slay the giant, but remember he only had one (lucky?) shot, and we all know where he would have ended had he missed!
lijnoj
JohanSamyn
2006-10-07, 21:24
I can only add to this list my own bad experiences with Symantec products. Indeed, trying to remove them marks them - at least for me - as true malware, because it's almost impossible to achieve. It's been already so long ago, I don't even remember if I succeeded, or if I reinstalled my pc. I think nobody has the right to try to master anybody elses pc that way, not even with the motive of "helping you to protect your machine". So yes, I voted "Detect and completely remove NIS". I understand however, that fighting Symantec in court would indeed be a Goliath-David experience. But it should be clear that nobody is allowed to tamper with the rules. To me, who hinders or fights people that are trying to help others (even for free !) is to be eliminated out of the game. It's untollerable. They are indeed violating the rules of the ASC, so action agains them is justified.
To Patrick Kolla (and eventually colleagues/helpers/etc) I say : "Thank you so much", your product has helped me several times already, and is a tool I would not like to miss. Please keep up the good works, as we use to say.
My donation will follow soon. I think this should become our normal behaviour. When we use someone's free product, and it is of real value to us, we should spontaneously compensate that person for his/her efforts.
Regards, Johan
I love Spybot and I have and will always have it on my pc's.
I also have used Norton for many years. I probably always will.
Reading through these messages I can understand the frustration of software that did not work for somebody, and the need for some folks to vent for reasons that may not be related to this issue.
I did a search of "Spybot Search & Destroy" on the Symantec site. When it came to NIS2007 and Spybot they talked about it running the tea timer feature and the worst case solution was to uninstall Spybot, then uninstall Norton IS2007 restart the computer and then reinstall NIS 2007 and then reinstall Spybot. Hardly a condemnation of Spybot.
I am going to write to Norton/Symantec and voice my concern if they are stating anything else elsewhere.
You mean this page?
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/0/2f5f420bd905ac77882571e0005e8f21?OpenDocument&seg=hm
Well,in my own personal opinion,I think NIS should add some of the info from the above page,to this warning box,rather than have the warning box say to uninstall Spybot,with no mention of the instructions from the link above included:
http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/16919821?c=1064190&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyaywxNjkxOTgyMQ%3D%3D
(Above taken from this thread) :
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16919821
chaozhouzi
2006-10-08, 14:06
Like most of you, I was galvanised to register to post after reading the news.:mad:
My 3 PCs come with NIS preinstalled. I removed them sometime ago because it let in trojans (3 nos.) into one of my PC. I managed to install Avast! to remove the trojans and there was no looking back since.:bigthumb:
If you have NIS, do the same and get rid of this crap.
I have Spybot S & D, Zonealarm, Ad Aware and Avast on my systems now.
Keep up the good work Spybot team.:D: :yahoo:
reebangel
2006-10-08, 19:12
I'm a 60-year-old woman with zero ties to the computing industry. I grind no axes. I bought the whole Norton Big Kahuna and was seriously annoyed at how many problems it caused with my computer. After 3 or 4 paid 'repairs' my techie had pity on me and told me that Norton was causing my problems. He removed it for me and sent me here. I made him my prize-winning Antique New York Cheesecake (with a card containing a less fattening token of my esteem...i.e. money) as a thank-you present.
Hi! [waves to everyone]
RA
[QUOTE=Zenobia;45696]You mean this page?
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/0/2f5f420bd905ac77882571e0005e8f21?OpenDocument&seg=hm
Yes, that was the page that I looked at.
I also agree that the pop up screen should have more information, such as what seems to be the Symantec position regarding SS&D from the above link.
From the forum mentioned below in your message it seems to be talking about a beta or trial version, but I may be mistaken, being more an issue.
Since Symantec updated the first link within the past week, I would have to assume that it is the current position of Symantec regarding SS&D.
I have used their products for years and have used SS&D for years and it was very helpful a couple of years ago cleaning up some problems that I had in spite of Norton's protection. Yes, I have paid for Norton and yes, I have made a contribution for SS&D.
highlanditsupportltd
2006-10-09, 23:47
We love Norton Internet Security - we make money by removing it from our customers' PCs!!!
Pathfinder174
2006-10-10, 01:53
All this from the company that `assimilated' Sygate... originally to expand their complete line of coverage for Symantec Firewall products. Yeah, that got k/o'd real quick, save their Enterprise lineup.
Fuziwuzi
2006-10-10, 23:47
I swore by the corporate version of Symantec antivirus for years. My company would get renewals and I would update as they came out. It would get new definitions on a daily basis.
About 2 months ago, however, my computer became infected with some sort of trojan that actually used the Symantec email proxy as its method of spamming/spreading. My computer tried to send out THOUSANDS of emails, dozens at a time. Thankfully I was able to catch it before many went out by turning off my cablemodem. I did a complete scan with Symantec, it found nothing, but nowhere could I find where these emails were being stored in order to delete them from Symantec's queue. Every time I activated my modem, the emails would try to send.
Finally, I uninstalled all of Symantec, powered on my modem, and went to the free.grisoft.com site to download the free AVG antivirus. During the install it detected and removed 3 trojan programs that were running on my computer, one a "trojan proxy tool" that obviously was designed to use proxies like the Symantec.
I emailed Symantec support, even included the found files, but they denied that their product was being used by any malware (even though I sent them system logs which proved it was). They were far more concerned with anyone else finding out their product was actually being targeted and thus unsafe than in attempting to correct the problem.
I'm now a paid AVG antivirus user and will never, ever go back to Symantec products. And neither will my company, we've cancelled all Symantec product use.
Resource hogging software that is far worse to remove than malware! I despise the amount of time Symantec has cost me in "repairing" PCs both at work and privately, when the only fault was there garbage software.
Spybot has been a faithful friend for many years.
glush777
2006-10-12, 18:49
Re the Norton's versus Spybot issue, I have been using both for about five years. I experienced no problems until recently. The Computer Repair Shop advised me that the New Versions of Norton's are a nuisance - slowing computers down.
Considering their attitude, I cannot support Symantec or Norton in any way. I agree that anti-spyware should detect them completely.
zaphodb777
2006-10-12, 21:16
If you want to detect Norton, only do it if the following condition is true...
If there is a copy of NPROTECT.EXE on the hard drive, you can call the norton install hostile/malware. This program is the infamous Norton Rootkit (Aka Protected Recycle Bin). I found a Direct Connect++ p2p client running on my machine from inside the hidden (from the API) directory.
***ADVANCED USERS ONLY***
To neuter it, rename NPROTECT.EXE to XNPROTECTX.EXE and reboot. Then prowl your recycle bin via CMD prompt, and INSIDE (not at recycler root) every directory of your recycl~1 type in these 2 commands.
attrib *.* -S -H -A -R
attrib *. -S -H -A -R
Then go about deleting all the files you find therein. Don't delete the directories, unless you are sure you can. Never ever delete the root recycler directory.
As long as NPROTECT.EXE cannot be found at boot, then the rootkit cannot run.
(I of course take no responsibility for what you may injure following above setps)
Zap
That new Symantec knowledgebase article was a direct reaction to our complaint, coming right afterwards.
So that's one think we've got to thank everyone for, your voices already helped, thank you :)
Death Eternal
2006-10-13, 05:44
:D: :thud: :bigthumb:
Personally i make every effort to remove any norton product i can.
I then replace em with proper AV and spyware removal programs.
The less people whom are infected with norton the better in my opinion..
The **only** usefull norton product is ghost, on a boot disk.
AplusWebMaster
2006-10-14, 18:19
"What goes around, comes around..."
Symantec doesn't believe that, I'm sure. Let -us- not forget that. It's their shame. Really too bad for them.
I hope Peter Norton has taken what they gave him and bought a small island somewhere so he can make all those great Corona commercials - I always imagined it was him on the beach chucking that pager into the surf... ahhhh.
:spider:
dkathrens77
2006-10-15, 22:50
I registered just so I could put my two cents worth in the pot: I hate to admit it, but Symantec is really starting to bother me as an end user.
I saw the warnings about Spybot S&D when I installed Norton Ghost, but I am contrary enough to not let such things prevent me from doing what I want to do.
Don't get me started about how Norton SystemWorks "breaks" everytime I install a new program, forcing me to uninstall and re-install it as a result.
Not to mention the slow, useless first tier support from people on the opposite side of the planet who type English as a Second Language. The 30 minute waits in queue for a chat, followed by 3-5 minute response delays for every question you ask. And the way they pointedly avoid answering direct questions, in favor of "sticking to the script". Each one of them is hosting 5-10 chat sessions at any given time. Who can provide quality support in that sort of environment?
By contrast, I've never HAD any problems with SpyBot, hence never NEEDED any tech support for it. Beat that, Symantec!
SpyBot S&D is a godsend :bigthumb: to the PC end user. I've backed up my cheap words of praise with Donation$ because I support innovation wielded on the side of the consumer as opposed to bloated, unresponsive corporate giants telling us that we should only want what they offer.
Shame on Symantec :sad: for trying to muscle out a "little guy" offering a world class product with their own shoddy johnny-come-lately imitation.
israelisassi
2006-10-16, 17:39
Norton Internet Security detects both Spybot and Microsoft Defender as incompatible products.
The real problem is they are taking away our options. Of all of the anti-virus products I have used, Norton Anti-virus is the one that gets disabled the easiest by viruses.
s1ay3r19
2006-10-18, 05:49
Can someone help me out im looking for a program i cant remember the name but it runs in the back ground and any time you or any program tries to change your homepage it will pop up and ask you if its ok to change or if you want to stop it. I have been browser hijacked twice in the past and its a pain in the butt to get rid of so i would assume to just prevent it happening again. Thanks for you help.
kitramos
2006-10-18, 15:26
I would also aggree that Norton is crap. I never liked the fact that you had to keep rebuying the software to continue to get updates, but I thought beyond that it wasn't to bad. untill I got a laptop with norton preinstalled. the laptop was a 1.6ghz, wich ment it had bouth more memory and a faster processor as the tower was only a 1.1ghz, but the dang thing ran way slower then my tower, heack even my 800mhz computer was slightly faster and that's half the processor speed!!
after a major overhaurl of the system I got it working as it should now. plus norton crashed while dooing it's first time startup thinge then kept trying to restart the program.
I do like Avg a lot as it does do a good job for it's price. I also found Ez Armor is a good program (as long as you don't use their firewall that still has some bugs in it in my option) I got ahold of them as I found the ISP I work for provides that free to all their customers (Road Runner) and what's more it works on my servers where AVG free refused to.
So yes please do include tools to help us purge the world of the Symantec Virus. I also found out that Norton is bundeld with AOL just further proving how low they sank.
qwarz987
2006-10-18, 17:56
Hi!
I prefer AVG FE + Sygate PF (acquired by Symantec... :sad: ) + Spybot S&D to any Symantec or Norton or something else. Last ones are not secure like they said, too slow... My suggestion - uninstall any Symantec's product. Instead of them... Look above... :) But if U don't believe who makes free software - try maybe Kaspersky's or TrendsMicro's or something else solutions but... not Symantec's products.
Yuri.
Ciao!
Io preferirei AVG FE + Sygate PF (quest' ultimo purtroppo è stato acquisito dalla Symantec) + Spybot S&D a qualsiasi prodotto dalla Symantec. Symantec's sono troppo insicuri, lentissimi... Mio suggerimento - disinstallare tutto cio' che Symantec. Al posto loro... Guarda sopra... :) E se qualcuno non si fida dei software gratuiti - allora puo' in alternativa provare soluzioni dalla Kaspersky o TrendMicro o qualcosa altro ma... in ogni caso non dalla Symantec.
Yuri.
kentlowt
2006-10-18, 19:15
As some of the above did I registered just to respond to this post. I think in this situation turnabout is fair play.
1. Have teatimer detect the installation of ghosts and offer to stop it as an incompatable program(in symantecs own words).
2. Have spybot detect it as an incompatable program and offer removal of the product(again in symantecs own words).
3. Detect their hidden directories as possible sources of virus and spyware infection and offer removal.
I doubt symantec will be removed from the group (but you should try just to make the point) but I also don't believe you should leave either. It will look like you are running off to cry in the corner which would not look good. Solution is to be the bigger man always be there to take a stand against them when they pull stuff like this(be a thorn in their side). Understand who they are and what they are and learn from it and move on.
The above steps I mentioned are legitimate warnings and that is the way you should keep it Legitimate we dont want to stoop to their level.
Lord Cobol
2006-10-20, 03:58
I'm no big fan of Symantec. Was a contented user around 2001 / 2003, and ditched them in 2004. But, when I was using both their "internet security" and Spybot, Spybot's system startup list descriptions used to list some Symantec programs as malware instead of the genuine thing. (It's been a while, and I don't remember exactly what Spybot said about which program).
I'm sure the computers involved weren't infected and the files Spybot complained about were legit, so I can't blame Symantec for being a bit ticked-off.
Also, after I upgraded to their 2004 version it kept getting corrupted and forcing me to re-install. Changed to another company without ever tracking down what caused it, but I could never get rid of the faint suspicion that maybe my overnite scheduled Spybot scans were nuking something they shouldn't.
I'm no big fan of Symantec. Was a contented user around 2001 / 2003, and ditched them in 2004. But, when I was using both their "internet security" and Spybot, Spybot's system startup list descriptions used to list some Symantec programs as malware instead of the genuine thing. (It's been a while, and I don't remember exactly what Spybot said about which program).
I'm sure the computers involved weren't infected and the files Spybot complained about were legit, so I can't blame Symantec for being a bit ticked-off.
Also, after I upgraded to their 2004 version it kept getting corrupted and forcing me to re-install. Changed to another company without ever tracking down what caused it, but I could never get rid of the faint suspicion that maybe my overnite scheduled Spybot scans were nuking something they shouldn't.
I registered just to respond to Lord Cobol. Sir, did it ever occur to you, that Spybot S&D was telling you that something had perhaps infected your Norton's product, and during it's cleaning, yes, it's possible that in order to get rid of the infection, it had to get rid of some infected files in that particular folder. HOWEVER, Spybot S&D DOES NOT delete anything unless YOU THE USER tell it to. It also makes a quarentine of the files and you can..or could have, restored them if needed...
Norton products are so easily targeted by so many viruses and other unwanted and infectious things out on the net, that their products usually don't even detect them and continue to "work" as if nothing is wrong with them. You would do well to just uninstall any Symantec products you have now, then to wait until they become infected and then blame another program when it tries to clean them up...
Now, back to the topic at hand, I say detect any and all Symantec products, and recommend to the user that they should, if they want to keep their computer safe, uninstall the Symantec product(s).
Been in the IT game since '79 and have used and recommended Norton and then Symantec as it became for many years.
But now it's gone the way of MS and a few others I won't mention.
Suits with the $$$ signs, taking advantage and the mickey while they are at it.
Me, abandon the big corporation attitudes. It's a fast moving game and there are many out there who have heart and spirit before the $$$.
So say bye bye to symantec antics and move on.
The Linux OpenSource community is growing all the time.
Don't take life too seriously, nobody get out of it alive :angel:
suncoast
2006-10-20, 22:35
I too have been working on Computers for a long time... since DOS 3.1. McAfee Antivirus started as a free download very similar to Spybot. (Actually Shareware spread around on BBS Systems.) It provided no protection, only detection and removal. Then it changed hands and fell apart. NAV became the only real choice. But then the same thing happened to Norton, it sold, and fell apart. Only it's demise is more about greed, and shabby code writing only fixed by unnecessary "upgrades." People need to revolt again with their wallets! Another free Antivirus for home use is Avira, at www.free-av.com. And they still support Win98! (NAV doesn't.) Judging from the responses to this thread, there is a broad following. However this being so deep in the thread I doubt it will be seen by many. However, USE YOUR POWER.
Both my and my wifes parents have Investment Stock Portfolios. I am often asked about good/bad tech stock suggestions. About 6 months ago, I insisted they sell all Symantec Stock. Stockholders also have rights. Even if it's part of a Retirement portfolio. Spread the word. Sell Symantec Stock. Tell your 401K or IRA Administrator you do not want any Symantec Stock. If you can't or won't sell, send a shareholder letter to the Symantec board.
Pepi, I hear your fustration. They are not playing fair. But anything retaliatory, and you've stooped to their level.
My first Pc came with norton (about 9 years ago).
Even though it was updated regularly I still got infected. I didn't have any trouble uninstalling it ........ I had to reformat !!!!!!!!!!!!
So I searched around and found a whole host of freeware that does a great job.
Like many of your members probably use, I have
Ad Aware
Spyblaster
Spyware Guard
Easy Cleaner
SpyWare Doctor (free edition)
AND of course S&D
I must admit to still using McAfee for anti virus but hey i've had clean Pc's for a long time now so why change a good thing !!!
PS. I am setting up my brother-in-law's Pc next week, I have already put S&D on flash drive to take with me.
Keep up the great work
suncoast
2006-10-20, 23:00
One more thing.... The Suits at Symantec are not listening to the Support Techs in Pakistan and India who hear our complaints.
Pepi, I want you to know I felt so strongly about this that I registered just to post in this thread.
I wrote an e-mail to the ASC today suggesting they revoke Symantec's membership. Here's the message:
As a former user of Symantec products, I find their actions towards Spybat S & D contemptible. I've read the journal blog posted here by the author:
http://safer-networking.org/en/news/2006-09-29.html
The corporate suits at Symantec should all be fired and burn in hell for their greed. What good reason do they have to take a dependable member like Spybot and bad mouth it? When I used Norton AV from 1998- 2004, I never once ran into any "compatibility issues" with Spybot S & D.
By claiming Spybot is somehow incompatible with their software, Symantec only adds to the confusion for computer novices. If I had never educated myself about computers, I would be confused and might even be tempted to remove Spybot as Symantec suggests. Is that the kind of members you allow into your coalition? One that spreads myths & lies? One that creates confusion for computer users in order to achieve market share?
I suggest if Symantec wants to fight dirty, think about the image in the mirror and consider the possible outcomes. At the risk of tarnishing their reputation, they need to correct their behavior now. If they had any modicum of professionalism and honesty about this, they would have corrected their error immediately and apologized to Spybot. The fact they've done exactly the opposite is a slap in the face to Spybot and to the ASC community.
I strongly urge you to REVOKE Symantec's membership into your community.
Chewy.
=======================================
Pepi, keep up the great work you're doing. :) I have a side business fixing computers and I recommend your software to all of my customers.
Brutalos
2006-10-21, 17:01
Den allgemeinen Feststellungen das NIS den Computer performancetechnisch in die Knie zwingt kann ich micht nur anschliessen.
Die Bedienung der Norton Security Suite ist grausam unergonomisch.
Layout und Design der Norton Suite offenbaren Lustlosigkeit am Design.
(Schlimm ist in der Tat, das man so einige Winkelzüge braucht, um den Mist komplett wieder vom Rechner runter zu bekommen.)
Ich kam eigentlich nur in die Verlegenheit das Norton-Teil mal als Demo zu installieren, weil meine einstmals gekaufte ZA-Firewall nicht mehr ganz auf dem neues Stand war (nicht die Freeware-Version eben) und ich mal über den Tellerrand gucken wollte.
Grausam enttäuscht wurde ich.
Wenn ich jetzt noch lese, das Symmantec euer gutes Produkt "abschiessen" will, kommt mir schlicht die Galle hoch.
Da kann ich doch nur den etwa 1000 Kunden die unsere Firma betreut sagen:
Trennt euch so rasch wie möglich von dem Norton-Unfug.
Da bleibe ich lieber weiter bei meiner Kombination aus ZoneAlarm und SpyBot.
Weiter so Leute, lasst euch nicht unterbuttern.
;)
fvelezdevilla
2006-10-23, 07:35
i am so happy with the spybot, i really love it, other antivirus didnt detect the spyware that i had, exepct this one, i really want to say thank u to u all
for this product, and i think symantec should consider working with this products, cause it detects even spyware that norton didnt detect on my computer...............
delusionz
2006-10-23, 11:45
I've had a problem with the Symantec AntiVirus Corporate that we use at work where AntiSpyware and AntiVirus would detect the same malware and both try to quarantine them (or temporarily lock file access to it) at the same time so neither one could delete the threat. I just can't remember whether that AntiSpyware was Microsoft's Defender or Spybot S&D. But in disgust I uninstalled AntiSpyware and haven't gone back until recently I decided to give Spybot S&D another shot... again until I read this article and realise some things will never change...
kamika-z
2006-10-25, 17:36
At Alorica(tech support for the horrible Gateway and eMachines computers) we were told to tell people to search google for a spyware removal tool. Well, few people listened. Even I recommended Spybot S&D(that was 2-3 years ago). But still, the techies(my sister and a few others that worked there tell me the details of some stuff) recommend Spybot(and usually are against Norton and recommend AVG/Avast for viruses).
The computer illiterate people that call in and hear the "experts" advising spybot and AVG/avast(free editions of course) tell their friends and family when it works, and the fact that it doesnt cost a thing, and is easy to install(and uninstall) spread the word faster than Norton spreads that it should be uninstalled.
Maniac-X
2006-10-28, 09:57
Norton was pretty cool back in the day, when MSDOS 5 was still new. Norton Utilities was a staple for any serious computer user.
Since then, they've taken a serious toboggan ride downhill.
So I say definitely have Spybot completely remove NIS!
Dragoon91786
2006-10-28, 23:05
I'd agree. In relative comparison, safer-networking doesn't have the financial capital to hold a full fledged political battle with Symantec. I personally wouldn't want them to waste the time. The only real advantage Symantec has over safer-networking, Grisoft, Lavasoft, Zonealarm really comes down to financial capital. They all have the better software, as we all know, but the one thing they don't have is the financial capital to advertise. Online is great, but not until you start to see big spreads in most mags, will you see or hear anything about these products.
Look, I talk from experience. My dad was in the computer business in the early 90's, he was doing the Dell thing at, around, or slightly before Mr. Dell dominated the market completely. (If you must know, his partners' gave him the shaft) but here's the facts. You can be told by 10,000 mags that talk about computers that safer-networking is better, but, people, that doesn't help the donation department or advertizing market to all those people, who, for better or worse make up 80-90% of the market, and most of those people, know nothing about, security protection, or which product is better. Do you honestly think PC Mag really sells to my mom? NO. She doesn't go buying PC mags. I do. I buy Maximum PC which is where I first learned about Spybot and AVG, and what not. That and the now defunct Tech TV. Facts are, people just don't in a large majority know which product is better, and when they go to the store, as all do, because freeware/shareware is to be perfectly honest, a tech/geek/nerd thing. You have to be a little Geeky to know what they are. The average person if you asked them what spybot is will look at you funny. I know, I explain to countless college students what SpywareBlaster/Spybot Search and Destroy/AVG/Ad-Aware are. Most still don't know about updating windows, or heck...the most basic of things. If you really want to get people to learn, it's going to come down to this. When this country get's it's head, slightly out of it's butt, and they realize all students need to be required to take computer classes, then will it be that you can send the ten thousand reasons why these products are better. Because until you are able to have full page ads, or tv spots during the superbowl, or what not, these products will never become well known.
Ok. if someone wants an Idea I've got one. Since most people don't know what any of these things are, someone needs to create an ad for several superbowl type events, talking about freeware/shareware/where to look for the best products, why it's important, so on and so forth. Get the understanding freeware exists, and security is increadibly important. For example, why is Mcafee getting more well known? It's new deal with Comcast and Comcast High Speed internet. The facts are, you need to have widespread coverage of your audience, because for the same reason Microsoft will never be defeated by Apple, because Microsoft owns 90% of the market, and people just don't want to switch, don't know very much, and unless you shove it in their faces at superbowl sunday, never will care to learn.
I'd say this, get the entire nerd/geek/computer/gaming/tech/hacker/cracker/opensource/everything computer releated together, get them to cough up the donation money to talk about opensource/freeware/shareware in a massive way, via a massive ad program, and the thing you will see is, people will know. Do you think people like to pay Symantec 100's of dollars a year for a product they don't even know works? NO! I would never pay for something I didn't need to pay for, legally speaking. If I could get a product that way better, that did more, that took up less system resources, and was absolutly free, do you honestly think I would pay for something that was a piece of crap and messed up my computer? No...not one bit. If you make the case big enough about freeware/shareware/opensource you will create a tsunami of interest in the GLOBAL populus. In the areas it counts. So why don't you guys go set up a donation page for support opensource/freeware/shareware/etc. and the general things Symantec doesn't fix, repair,cover get all those rich nerds interested in a good cause, and with a little kick in the butt form the base, we can kick this thing off in a way that will really make an impact. Sorry for no other ideas, but that's the only way they are going to be wide known in the next 10 years to the regular pop. People just don't know, and often are too confused to care.
-Chris
M2A2Welder
2006-10-29, 03:20
I used the norton trial software on my new computer (2007).
After installing, my computer ran "funny" in the best of terms.
Everytime I shut down I had to close a nonresponsive program related to Norton. I would have written it down to post here, but I did not think of doing so.
I traced my problems back to norton and I decided to uninstall it.
I went to uninstall programs and tried to uninstall Norton. It wouldn't uninstall!
After hours of headache I downloaded an uninstaller from the Norton website.
It did not uninstall completely as I tried to install the original Half Life game and an error box sprang up showing the root of the problem in a symintech (spelling) folder.
I'm not all that terriffic with computers, so fixing problems like this take a lot of time for me.
I'm thinking of using my recovery cds and starting all over. I'm very frustrated.
Has anyone noticed spybot running very slow after installing Norton?
I'm not sure if it is actually running slow, or my imagination.
I used other antivirus software with good results.
I have NEVER had problems with them like I did with Norton.
justhefax
2006-10-29, 18:41
We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.
Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.
I will be very interested to see the result of the motion to expel Symantec. How ironic Symantec is appealing Microsoft's latest bullying with security in Vista, but has no compunctions about doing the same to smaller competitors of its own.
I voted * Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.
Dan
I use and recommend Spybot, SpywareBlaster, Ad-Aware, and AVG
I personally use Norton AV 2004 Professional, but at the first hint of problems, or upon expiration in May '07, will remove it or let it expire. I am hearing of many bad experiences related to the Symantec 2007 product line.
I think it is very telling the number of people who registered on this forum in response to this thread. Reaction to Symantec questionable policies and products is eliciting a strong response!
Hi,
I will be removing Norton in a few weeks when my subscription runs out. I am concerned about successfully removing it. I have read that the add/remove program feature in the control panel might not completely remove it.
Does anyone have first hand experience with the "Norton Removal Tool" at this location?:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039
Thanks
Frank C
DarkTearz
2006-11-02, 10:40
I just did a complete un-install of Symantec Norton Internet Security 2006 & Norton System Works 2006, I was constantly getting a ccApp.exe error with it from about a week after purchasing it. Seems like after 2005, Symantec products went to the popper. And every time I went to get Technical Help at Symantec they would refer me to the tool they have on there site that supposedly un-installs it then you are to reinstall both products again after running the "fix tool". They claim it was a common file error, that was why I was getting the ccApp.exe error. After doing this fix many times since I had bought both products I finally decided that I wanted to remove it completely and get a refund on the products seeing as I spent over $100.00 buying both. They refused to refund my money saying that it had to be a common file error in my computer from other programs installed, when I looked at all the files that both programs installs I found out that both Symantec products install the ccApp.exe file into all common folders in Microsoft Windows XP, so it was not my computer, it is there software! And be fair warned anyone that uses that so called "removal tool" it does NOT remove all the files in your computer nor the registry, after trying for days endlessly to remove the remaining files, I finally gave up and did a complete restore. Using the old fashioned way (I will never use restore disks that come with computers) MS DOS floppy disk (using fdisk.exe), erasing everything from the hard drive, then reinstalling Microsoft Windows XP from scratch. I was trying to prevent having to do this because my computer I use for business, I lost two days work over all of this, is Symantec going to pay my wages? I don't think so. But its a lesson learned, I will never use any Symantec product again, and I have been using Spybot Search & Destroy for many years now plus other applications, and found that very few other programs come near to catching what Spybot Search & Destroy does. I wouldn't recommend fighting Symantec like others have suggested, my idea would be keep creating and upgrading Spybot Search & Destroy, its not worth the aggravation or money for them to just drag you through court for years on end, because as we all know that is what big companies do, because they have the funding to do such a thing. When anyone asks me what product to use to catch spy ware I always recommend Spybot Search & Destroy, and as far as I am concerned I will never recommend any Symantec product again, like I said lesson learned, granted the hard way, but still learned. And I am truly sorry for such a long post after me just joining tonight, but I did not want to pass the chance up to tell others that your best to just do a complete format, Symantec products act like a virus in your computer, it never wants to leave and will stay as long as you let it, thank you for reading.:greeting:
I've been an IT professional for 25 years. Norton Utilities was an indispensable box of tricks in its early days (first released about 1982 if memory serves). But since a couple of years after Symantic took over, I put "don't install any of norton" at the top of the list if friends or family ask my advice, or "I'll (try) to remove it" if they are unlucky to enough to find the thing pre-installed. I was hesitant to say the same to clients - even colleagues were a little incredulous I was anti such an 'established' company. Maybe there are good bits, but to my mind if they get it so wrong for so long in the areas I've seen problems, then the whole box goes in the bin.
I'm please to see you guys making a stand, and it doesn't surprise they don't play fair with fellow members of the ASC. I'll continue saying to anyone who asks that Norton causes more problems than it claims to solve, and continue telling any company I buy or source PCs from, that I'll not buy them if they come installed with such rubbish.
p.s.
Spybot is brilliant (thought I should say something positive :))
After reading DarkTearz on the difficulty of removing Norton - I am discouraged.
I really do not want to reformat. Here is an item from the Washington Post that additionaly points to Symantec problems:
Washington Post Nov. 3, 2006 page D5
"Symantec Sued Over Anti-Virus Renewals
Customers of Symantec sued the security-software company, claiming that it cheated them when they renewed subscriptions for such programs as Norton AntiVirus.
The company pressures users to renew with "pop-up" notices, according to a complaint filed in a California state court. For those who renew, subscription terms are based on the renewal date, rather than the original date of expiration, depriving users of service they paid for, the lawsuit says.
Symantec had no comment."
Frank C
Lynn1102
2006-11-03, 22:41
This isn't sticking up for or bashing anyone, just a comment. In working with computers for over 20 years, I don't think I've ever un-installed anything from a windows machine where everything was gone. Matter of fact, most programs will give you a message that not all files were deleted, and suggest you delete them yourself. When I find a better program that what I have, I un-install the old one and almost every time I have to do extra work, not much, to delete the rest of the files. Occasionally I will have to go into the registry to locate and change or delete setting for the program.
I do use Nortons anti-virus, but not NIS - I don't feel I need it for what I do. My windows firewall works fine for me. I have installed NIS on other peoples computers and got tired of trying to figure what to use and what to deny - everyone has their own list.
Actually I just started using this version of Spybot and had more trouble with it. It wouldn't let me install any updates, even windows updates. The use/deny buttons are scrambled and I can't use them. I had problems getting my own work done cause spybot kept popping up to tell me it denied something else. I have for the monent, disabled Spybot and wil run it when I feel it's necessary. What it does it does well, maybe too well.
Lynn
whatabout
2006-11-05, 07:30
While looking for alternatives, I came across a program called ClamWin antivirus. It looks like a free, open-source program but the version number (0.88.5) suggests to me that it might not be completely ready yet. Anybody have any experience with this one?
Also, how about firewalls? What're some good alternatives there?
I was just starting to install my new NIS2007 when I saw the message about spybot... a little research brought me this wealth of info & now i'm really considering asking for my money back. the icing on the cake was more than half the user agreement being for yahoo toolbar that they want you to install <.<; talk about unprofessional...
Oppressed
2006-11-06, 01:36
Norton (Symantec) needs a wake-up call!
They are getting WAY to arrogant for their own good.
:sick:
Not only do they want people to uninstall Spybot they are also going after Windows Defender (which I could care less about, really.)
I say don't waste the donations on fighting Symantec let Microsoft go after them?
Also, how about firewalls? What're some good alternatives there?
I use Zonealarm (http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/home.jsp). They even have free version at: http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/catalog/products/sku_list_za.jsp?dc=12bms&ctry=BE&lang=nl&lid=nav_za
My 15 - year old son has just bought himself a laptop which had a load of stuff preinstalled (with no disks) including XP and Norton 2006. He was also convinced by PC World that he needed to purchase NIS 2007.
I would also like to point out that he keeps getting ccApp.exe problems when trying to shut down for the night (which seems to take for ever and a day)
On the main PC I run Zone Alarm, AVG and Spybot - I do have Norton Utilities which a friend put on for me when I was having other probs.
Can someone please advise what the best option for my son's laptop is - I have not installed NIS 2007 yet and having read the comments here I'm not sure that I really want to!! If I try to uninstall 2006 and it goes pear-shaped I am going to be in big trouble as we have no disks for XP to reinstall and start again.
I did think about returning NIS 2007 back to shop but my son has taken sellophane wrapper off so they wouldn't accept that and reading some your comments here it doesn't look as though Symantec will accept return either without valid reason.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
BTW I love Spybot - have used this for a long time on my PC, haven't had any problems and it is so easy to use for some of us who don't really have the slightest idea about all this stuff.
Thanks in advance
Lynn1102
2006-11-08, 01:46
Was this a new laptop that he bought. If it was, I thought it was illegal to sell a new computer without the program discs to go with it.
If he's stuck with it as is, try this. I got these instructions from Symantec some time ago and it worked for me. I have since stopped using NIS. This is also good for anti virus 2006 My other machine has System Works 2005 and I have no problem with it.
In order to resolve the issue disable Scan Removable Media and Floppy Disk:
1. Start Noton Internet Security 2007
2. Click on Noton Internet Security Tab
3. Select 'Settings tab'
4. Click on 'Virus and Spyware Protection Options' under 'Additional Options'
5. Select 'General Settings' under 'Real-Time Protection' in Left pane of the Virus and Spyware Protection Options Window
6. Uncheck 'Scan Floppy disk in drive A for boot viruses when Shutting down'
7. Click Ok
Lynn
Oppressed
2006-11-08, 18:17
My 15 - year old son has just bought himself a laptop which had a load of stuff preinstalled (with no disks) including XP and Norton 2006. He was also convinced by PC World that he needed to purchase NIS 2007.
I would also like to point out that he keeps getting ccApp.exe problems when trying to shut down for the night (which seems to take for ever and a day)
On the main PC I run Zone Alarm, AVG and Spybot - I do have Norton Utilities which a friend put on for me when I was having other probs.
Can someone please advise what the best option for my son's laptop is - I have not installed NIS 2007 yet and having read the comments here I'm not sure that I really want to!! If I try to uninstall 2006 and it goes pear-shaped I am going to be in big trouble as we have no disks for XP to reinstall and start again.
I did think about returning NIS 2007 back to shop but my son has taken sellophane wrapper off so they wouldn't accept that and reading some your comments here it doesn't look as though Symantec will accept return either without valid reason.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
BTW I love Spybot - have used this for a long time on my PC, haven't had any problems and it is so easy to use for some of us who don't really have the slightest idea about all this stuff.
Thanks in advance
Hello,
I recently purchased NIS 2007 for a Canadian Retail Store (London Drugs) and was able to return it even though I had broken the seal on the package and on the sleeve. I told the clerk that I would NOT uninstall perfectly good security software to install an unproven product. I also told them that there was NO warning on the packaging that this would be required, if there had been I would NOT have purchased it.
This being said I did go to the Symantec Website first. Used the Contact Us Link and asked for phone support for NIS 2007. Gave the reason as I wanted to return the product. I received a Priority ID # and a toll free number. Phoned, explained situation honestly and was sent an email with instructions on returning the product for a refund check. Being from Canada shipping with tracking is to expensive which is why I went back to the retailer.
I hope this helps?
Thanks both of you (Lynn1102 and Oppressed) - I will give it a try and see what happens. Any suggestions what he should use instead?
As I said I use AVG, ZoneAlarm ans Spybot on the main PC - is this sufficient or should he be using something else as well or instead? He spends most of his time on the internet as well as using it for GCSE coursework (you can see why I don't want to beggar it up!!)
Thanks again
spywareBob
2006-11-08, 22:56
Thanks both of you (Lynn1102 and Oppressed) - I will give it a try and see what happens. Any suggestions what he should use instead?
As I said I use AVG, ZoneAlarm ans Spybot on the main PC - is this sufficient or should he be using something else as well or instead? He spends most of his time on the internet as well as using it for GCSE coursework (you can see why I don't want to beggar it up!!)
Thanks again
Hi there,
Those three are excellent choices, but you won't quite have all bases covered. I've written a small article on the subject on my blog: http://spywarebob.blogspot.com/2006/04/beware-of-rogue-anti-spyware-programs.html
The nature of spyware and adware requires a multi-layered defense to counter it. As a minimum I would suggest adding Lavasoft Ad-Aware (http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/) and maybe AVG Anti-Spyware Free
(http://free.grisoft.com/)(formerly ewido).
Along with these, make sure the security settings are up to speed in Internet Explorer, or try Firefox or another browser. Finally, the weakest link in any computer security setup is the human operator, so knowledge of safe surfing habits is also strongly advised.
Best,
Rob
http://spywarebob.blogspot.com
Staying safe on the web. ;)
So how did I get infected in the first place? (http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?t=279 )
UPDATED WINDOWS - Your first line of defence, links and tips (http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?t=425)
File Sharing, otherwise known as Peer To Peer. (P2P) (http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?t=282)
Thanks spywareBob - your advise is much appreciated!
Ramiro85
2006-11-10, 05:37
I have read a lot of the post in these thread and I have also been a Norton/Symantec product user, but I have no longer run nor recomend the use of any Symantec Security Suite or product.
The last norton I have use was NAV 2000 in which I run with some problems to uninstall it from W98. It left my windows crashed as it didn't remove all the registry application start links.
Then I have use several AV as many people stated here: Kaspersky, Nod32, AVG Free, Avast, etc. From all of them I now use AVG Free on the lower resourses machines like Pentium200 or other old stuff runing W98, and Avast on other pc's that have a little more power; that is only because I like the Avast Interface a little more that AVG and I like the fact that the free version is also available in other lenguages. NOD32 has an exeptional detection module probably not found in any other product, but since it isn't free I cant no longer use it:sad: .
As for firewalls I have tryed many of them: Zone Alarm, Outpost , Keiro, Jetico, etc. From all of them I loved Outpost:bigthumb: (since it didn't popped out many windows i find it really user friendly) so I recomend it to anyone, I have also like Jetico but it really gets bothering when it ask for the same program even when you added it to the aplication trusted and marked to remember it:red: (has anyone have the same problem?); as for zone alarm free it is good, and it is easy to understand what it is assking so its the one I install when I have to shield computer for another person but I personaly use Outpost as I have more understanding that the avrage computer user has.
Finally to avoid spyware/other sh!t I use spyware search & detroy and I allways recomend it, It s grate to get rid of that scumbag software. But to avoid geting spyware installed on first place I can only recomend you to do not download any untrasted software (crack/warez/unknown p2p apps/etc); I do not accept to install ANY software that includes any type of browser toolbar as they generay are a security risk. I also use Firefox 1.5.0.8+No Script + Fasterfox+ adblock plugins + No cookie config and clean all at close settings.
All my passwords are never writen anyware, and of course never remembered by any program neither firefox nor any other; and that is the key to avoid loosing privacy. Bank info isn't stored in my computer neither, and just in case any sensitive content is Encrypted using TrueCrypt tool :bigthumb:
And finally I use a router, with properly configured firewall as the first incoming line of defence.
When in windows envoriment Security Upgrades are applaid as fast as windows promts me, (that is because I choose what to install and what not to); probably the windows tool to detect legal windows installs could be also consider a form of malware; because its generaly installed without user knowlage and perform info gathering of the Operative System and other information. Despite Being a Legal Windows user I really hates when M$ do things like that without my consent. That was the primary reason I swiched to linux :bigthumb: some time ago but I can't get rid of Win due to some specific software I use (ACAD, MultiTrack Sound editing tools, Video Editing Software), I know they all had their linux free competion that does the basic stuff but sometimes basic software isn't enough (QCAD vs ACAD is a good example)
As for the question Itself, I feel real shame of what symantec has done, and I encourage you to detect only some harmless files to wake up people and provide a link to these forum topic, so you let people decide what to do with their computers and sperad the voice.
But you should allways be very carfull on what you do, couse maybe you could get in a real legal trouble if you do any of the first 2 options so be shure you have some (at least minimal) legal advice to avoid geting a lawsue after you do what you are going to do. (I suspect that if for example you somehow point out that they are doing something that they aren't doing you could get sued for difamation or something like that) I wouldnt be the first time that a big company try to steal another people's good work with a legal movement. And Its very probable that if you do get to that point you may loose just because the donations we send could not keep up with a gigant corporation like symantec.
So that is what I think and I feel about the symantec problem. I am supporting and will continue supporting Spybot as long as I can, and have no doubts I will encourage other people to install Spybot; and if they have to choose betwen Symantec and Spybot I'll let know as many as I can the other alternative software so they can continue using spybot and get rid of NIS software. Sorry about the spelling mistakes (Spanish user here, with rusted english)
Long Live Freeware,
Long Live Spybot S&D
SpySentinel
2006-11-12, 01:02
I happen to like NIS 2007. I would stick with it. I do not like what symantec is doing, but I still like NIS 2007.
@SpySentinel
On most computers ( i say "most" because it's happened to mine, and many others that have posted here ), because it uses mega resources that slow many computers down considerably when it's running and causes errors with ccApp.exe. Also, they want to be the only program you use and say that other programs cause "conflicts' if they are already installed when you install Norton's.
IMHO, such software causes more problems than it solves. I've had trojans and viruses totally disable Norton's to where it wouldn't even detect or get rid of them. Such software isn't worth my time and should be pulled off the shelf immediately ..IMHO. I'm sure you'll run into the same problems given time and you'll try to uninstall it ..and have the same problems most of the other users here have had, but if it really works for you, then I'm glad that you are the exception and I hope you enjoy the program for as long as it lasts. :bigthumb:
None of the Above.
Sorry, I didn't have time to read the previous replies, so my opinions may have already been expressed by others.
I strongly disagree with stooping to their level and detecting their products as some sort of malware.
Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.
That's splitting hairs, and you guys know it. Furthermore, it legitimizes their detection of your software by the same logic. You'll effectively be turning it into a duel with Symantec, and they have bigger guns.
But I think legal action may be a waste of money. (Then again, I always hate seeing lawyers make money.) I'd say go directly to some of the other members of the coalition and look for allies (which you've probably already been doing). Do your best to raise awareness while continuing to annoy the hell out of Symantec through legitimate channels until they cave.
I donated to Safer Networking this morning and went to this forum for the first time, being surprised about the controversy over Symantec. I have found their Norton Internet Security to be the best I have tested and read reviews about in recent years. I have never needed Norton Ghost although I considered installing it or another cloning program when my HDD went bad recently; however, I decided to bite the bullet and reinstall the OS and everything else so I would be rid of an accumulation of 'cyber-sludge' -- so I am not personally aware of any Symantec directives to first uninstall Spybot for this program.
Here is my experience with Norton Internet Security (NIS) 2007 that I recently installed when my subscription to NIS 2006 was expiring. Incidentally, I have never encountered any such 'incompatibility' issues with prior NIS installations (since 2002.) When I did encounter the warning about Spybot being incompatible with the installation of NIS 2007, and to first uninstall it, I was surprised. However, I quickly learned that this only concerned the 'installation' of NIS 2007 and that I could subsequently reinstall Spybot-S&D after NIS was installed, without causing problems for either program. I did this in short order without thoughts of any devious intentions by Symantec; I even thought to myself that Spybot must indeed be powerful for a large company like Symantec not being able to design an installation program to ignore the presence of Spybot -- also, why Spybot didn't have means for my disabling it temporarily.
So, in impromptu fashion, I voted 'None of the Above' in the poll, especially since the third option seemed to be misworded if not misleading -- with the words "DO NOT (waste)" being omitted from the option, "No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware." How could such an omission or mis-wording be overlooked 'unintentionally' for an important poll when it changes the entire meaning of this option -- who would ever vote to waste donations...?
Now, having Scotch-Irish demeanor I have made plenty of phone-calls and written bunches of letters over the years concerning matters that I felt were important to be righted. And, if I had spent untold hours developing, managing and operating the Spybot program and web site (and caring so much about its quality and longevity) I would likely be taking action with Symantec myself.
However, having just now learned more about the Symantec company and its officers and policies from an internet search, I am wondering whether Symantec indeed has devious and possibly illegal intentions against Safer Networking's Spybot-S&D. Information in the following links may be pertinent to those feeling strongly enough about the subject issue to follow-up meaningfully:
Symantec's Corp. Officers:
http://www.symantec.com/about/profile/management/executives/index.jsp
Locations (found a surprise here):
http://www.symantec.com/about/profile/locations/index.jsp
Code of Conduct
(At least an indicator of their professionalism, much more than most companies):
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/89/89422/pdf/CodeOfConduct_13106.pdf
From my experiences in contacting folks at both large and small companies, I should think that Symantec's people would be more than willing to discuss the 'incompatibility' issue with PepiMK representatives and resolve matters amicably. Conversely, if a case can be made that Symantec is (even with an unproved 'likely') intentionally attempting to harm Spybot and its developers, THEN THE WHOLE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT IT, not just those at this forum or who may happen to read Spybot's home page info.
I intend to write a letter of inquiry to Symantec's CEO today, how about you? The bit about the whole world needing to know about any wrongful intentions, if true, will be highlighted but in a non-accusatory manner at this time.
It will also be interesting to read about any follow-up at the Spybot home page, or this forum.
Best Wishes,
Mac
PS - Everyone should be so fortunate as to live only 300 steps from their office.
My advice: don't bother to blame Symantec, it stinks.
quoted from:
http://www.thepcspy.com/articles/other/what_really_slows_windows_down/5
http://images.thepcspy.com/articles/what_really_slows_windows_down/bootdelay.png
http://images.thepcspy.com/articles/what_really_slows_windows_down/primedelay.png
http://images.thepcspy.com/articles/what_really_slows_windows_down/fileiodelay.png
polar_desire
2006-11-18, 20:14
Not too long ago, i was a newbie to the computer world, and i thought my new found computer was installed with all the best of everything....(of course it had Norton)..well, that just proved to be the most aweful thing i had ever dealt with in my life. Go figure,,, my comp crashed ...HARD! It was a nitemare. Eventually after a few years of dealing with norton and mcafee...i started listening to my instinct.
Fiends of mine who are IT pros..and one who is a professor at a collegeand a microsoft tech to boot, sugested i try spy bot along with the other programs i use( ad-aware and antivir)( i was using avg but had a few issues that caused a crash). well, i have told everyone i can imagine about spt bot.
Including my mom who is new to the comp world and has norton and just crashed...well she is safe and sound thanks to spy bot.
Symantec needs to get off the high horse and realize that if we all work together than OMG,, things go better for all.
I say detect the crap out of all their products and let them deal with it after that.
[QUOTE]Symantec's Corp. Officers:
http://www.symantec.com/about/profile/management/executives/index.jsp
Locations (found a surprise here):
http://www.symantec.com/about/profile/locations/index.jsp
Code of Conduct
(At least an indicator of their professionalism, much more than most companies):
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/89/89422/pdf/CodeOfConduct_13106.pdf
....I intend to write a letter of inquiry to Symantec's CEO today, how about you? The bit about the whole world needing to know about any wrongful intentions, if true, will be highlighted but in a non-accusatory manner at this time.
I wrote to Symantec's CEO last Friday and pursued the matter further with their Tech Spt in conjunction with a minor matter this morning, which may go on up the corporate ladder.
However, I also found the following info this morning, buried within Symantec's Knowledge Base data: (at link below)
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/0/2f5f420bd905ac77882571e0005e8f21?OpenDocument
In essence, it says this about a Spybot-S&D warning window that may appear during installation of NIS 2007:
Warning: "Spybot - Search & Destroy has detected an important registry entry that has been changed."
"This message is displayed by the Tea Timer feature of Spybot - Search & Destroy. The filename that the message displays can vary. For example, the filename may be ccApp, osCheck, IS CfgWiz, or a string of numbers and letters.
This message appears because your Norton product is making changes to the Windows registry, which is being protected by Spybot – Search & Destroy. When you install Norton Internet Security 2007, it must make changes to the Windows registry. Because Spybot Tea Timer does not know if these changes are safe, by design, it displays a warning message.
When you see the message, you must tell Spybot to allow the changes. If you press Enter when you see the Spybot message, although Norton Internet Security 2007 will appear to install, the Phishing Protection feature will not function.
Symantec is working with Safer Networking, the makers of Spybot, to address this situation.
You can work around this situation by uninstalling both programs, and then reinstalling Norton Internet Security 2007 before reinstalling Spybot - Search & Destroy."
(End of Symantec's quoted info.)
Although this may explain *a problem,* it certainly does not explain why Symantec's NIS 2007 program-installer abruptly warns their customers that Spybot-S&D is *incompatible* with NIS 2007 and to un-install it before installing NIS 2007 -- saying nothing about cooperating with Safer Networking to help correct the matter and nothing about it being ok to reinstall Spybot-S&D after installing NIS 2007.
So...it appears to me that Symantec indeed has devious intentions to harm Spybot-S&D and its owners. Symantec's response will be posted here along with any further plans for follow-up.
Regards,
Mac
Lynn1102
2006-11-21, 02:57
Mac, The following is my opinion and is not to considered for or against program or company. I use both Spybot and Noron's anti virus and have no problems with either of them. I do think you're getting a little picky about some of your complaints.
First - I went to the Nortons site and it took me about 10 seconds to find the FAQ about Spybot. I don't consider this to be "buried". The warning you mention is not Norton's, it's Spybots.
Next - If you follow the instructions when installing Norton's and allow the change, it installs fine. If not you have to un-install and do it again. If you don't want to do it, go to the site and get the un-install tool.
Next - Several time this week, I got updates from Windows. Each time Spybot popped up several times and warned me about the changes. I allowed the change. The first time I installed Spybot, due the that window being half obliterated, I couldn't see it and it would not allow any windows updates. I had to un-install Spybot to get the updates.
Next - Several time during the past 2 weeks I installed or updated other programs on my system. Each time it was suggested to disable all virus and spyware programs. This is true for many programs you install or download to Windows. I can disable Nortons, but not Spybot. I had to un-install it to get my programs installed..
Next - In your second last paragraph you mention "incompatable" and not being able to re-install Spybot, yet in the paragraph before that, the Norons info says to install Nortons first, then RE-INSTALL Spybot.
I have never had Nortons crash my system or know anyone who did. There are many minor imcompatability between many programs. If you have a Windows system, you have to learn to live with them - even if you don't have windows system, you have other problems. That's part of computer life.
Lynn
Terminator
2006-11-21, 16:40
The last copy of NIS I had was 2005 and after spending many hours managed to persuade it to allow my dial-up connection. Everything was fine for few months but things went south and fast I'm convinced it was an update for the Firewall that did it. My main problem was after using Outlook Express 6 it wouldn't let you shutdown the computer and would only allow shutdown if you De-activated NIS 2005 first. The other problem I had was after having to format my computer to get rid of the problem (Symantec Customer care was hopeless) I re-installed NIS 2005 and two new problems presented themselves. 1. ccapp.exe error messages on shutdown and 2. bizarrely it wouldn't let me schedule a virus scan and every time I went into Windows Program scheduler it would just bring up an error message saying the program cannot be scheduled.
Not long after I got rid of Norton My problems ceased and now I run Ad-Aware 1.06 Pro, Spybot 1.4, Avast 4.7.892 Free Edition and Zone Alarm 6.5.737.000 Free Edition, Firefox 2.0 with ULPS 1.2, Adblock Plus 0.7.2.2, Adblock Filterset.G Updater 0.3.0.4, McAfee Site Advisor 25.0, Google Toolbar 2.1 and Google Toolbar 4.0. I also have numerous Stand Alone tools Just In case.
Mac, The following is my opinion and is not to considered for or against program or company. I use both Spybot and Noron's anti virus and have no problems with either of them. I do think you're getting a little picky about some of your complaints....
Lynn,
Thanks for addressing my concerns but you apparently did not read both of my postings above and have twisted a few of my words and phrases in your response. I also note from a couple of your other postings that you have had problems installing and using Spybot-S&D. I've not had problems with either Spybot-S&D or NIS 2007 (and prior versions) and have both programs installed on two computers (NIS 2006 on the 2nd machine.)
In trying to make my position more clear to you, and possibly others, I recently installed Norton Internet Security (NIS) 2007 on my primary machine and subsequently visited this forum for the first time on a whim. I was surprised to find this Spybot/Symantec controversy but quickly became interested when recalling what I considered to be misleading statements by Symantec during my installation of NIS 2007.
Trying to be brief, Symantec's installation CD only stated that Spybot-S&D is *incompatible* with NIS 2007 and to un-install it, it said nothing about what this incompatibility is, nothing about its ramifications, nothing about it being only temporary for the installation of NIS, and nothing about it being ok to re-install Spybot-S&D after the NIS installation. I learned that others had reinstalled Spybot-S&D without any difficulties, from another on-line source, after I initially found nothing in regard to Spybot-S&D being incompatible from a visit to Symantec's site. (I should think this unqualified 'incompatibility' would be highlighted to potential buyers of NIS 2007, in order for them to decide whether to buy NIS or not, rather than learn this after purchase..??)
To me, this omission by Symantec to their NIS 2007 customers, and their having only an unqualified statement that Spybot-S&D is incompatible and should be un-installed, smacks of devious intent to harm their competitors, the Kolla father-son team and other developers of Spybot-S&D in this case. As I pointed out clearly though, I previously held Symantec and its management in high regard and that I intended to learn more.
The more I learn leads me more toward believing that Symantec indeed has devious intentions toward Sypbot-S&D devlopers, and is attempting to lead their customers toward 'abandoning' Spybot-S&D. My latest update on this will be posted after I finish this one to you.
In my 2nd posting above, I was simply relating what I had found from a deeper search of the archives at the Symantec site, which is apparently the 'only' information they have published concerning 'any' type of conflict with Spybot -- and this is limited to their explanation of a 'Tea Timer' conflict, saying nothing about their unqualified claim that Spybot-S&D is 'incompatible' with their NIS 2007 program. Incidentally, the Kolla's say in their introduction to this string that Symantec has 'not' been cooperative about this matter, while Symantec claims they are working with Safer Networking to address the situation, so who is being truthful here, I wonder. I'd like to hear more about this from the Spybot team.
Lynn, I hope this helps.
Mac
Here is more on this topic from Symantec's Tech Support this morning:
**Begin quote by Symantec Tech Spt:
I understand from your message that you wish to know if Spybot-S&D program is compatible with Norton Internet Security 2007 program. The manual claim Sypbot-S&D is *incompatible* however, you have reinstalled the Sypbot-S&D program after installing Norton Internet Security 2007 program.
-Mac-, please be informed that due to error free installation of Norton Internet Security 2007 program it is instructed not have any third party program installed while installing Norton program.The other antivirus program can conflict with installation.However, as you have re-installed Sypbot-S&D along with Norton Internet Security 2007 program and not faced any issue, there is nothing to worry.
I have passed your feedback along to the appropriate group. If you wish to provide additional feedback regarding our products and services, please do so at the following website:
>Web URL:
http://service1.symantec.com/discuss/support/feedback2.nsf/internet+services+feedback
This web site is reviewed on a regular basis by our management and product development staff. It is the best forum to have your feedback heard.
Please note that Symantec strongly recommends that you run only one security product at a time. Having more than one security product active in memory uses additional resources and can result in program conflicts and false virus alerts. Symantec does not support our products running more than one security product at a time.
Your best defense against computer threats is to keep your definitions up
to date, and run Auto-Protect. If you choose to install more than one
security product on your computer, then only one of them should be active
in memory at a time.
Thank you for your patience and co-operation.
**End of Quote.
No surprise here, just further info for any commentary.
Regards,
Mac
---------------------------------------
Sloboban Milosevic went on trial for allegedly ordering 8,000 executions, as genocide. 'Che' Guevara's executions had already reached 10,000 by the time of his 1964 UN visit, excluding tens of thousands who died while attempting to emigrate. And tee-shirts with Guevara's image sell on the internet as prizeware? What a travesty!!.........Mac
Lynn1102
2006-11-22, 02:40
Mac, Sorry for missing some of the points made earlier - I went back and re read some of the posts.
At this time I don't use NIS - only the antivirus on this machine and Nortons Utilities on the other machine.
At one time I tried NIS (don't remember if it was 05 or 06) and gave up trying to set it up for my use. I use the Windows firewall and haven't had a virus in years. I've had several attempts, but Nortons stopped them.
I don't know why, but last time I installed Spybot, it is not trying to run resident, which is one problem I had. Now I can run it whenever I want.
I need a clean machine because I usually download stuff here, scan them, then send to my business machine. I could download from there, but don't want to chance losing days or weeks of work.
I agree that Nortons tech support is worthless, maybe even less. Everytime I have contacted them, they always tried to fix something other than my problem. On the phone, if you can understand them, they are very nice and polite, but still can't fix much. Keep smiling - things can only get worse.
Let us know if you get a response from Norons.
Lynn
iNsuRRecTiON
2006-11-24, 00:46
Here is more on this topic from Symantec's Tech Support this morning:
**Begin quote by Symantec Tech Spt:
I understand from your message that you wish to know if Spybot-S&D program is compatible with Norton Internet Security 2007 program. The manual claim Sypbot-S&D is *incompatible* however, you have reinstalled the Sypbot-S&D program after installing Norton Internet Security 2007 program.
-Mac-, please be informed that due to error free installation of Norton Internet Security 2007 program it is instructed not have any third party program installed while installing Norton program.The other antivirus program can conflict with installation.However, as you have re-installed Sypbot-S&D along with Norton Internet Security 2007 program and not faced any issue, there is nothing to worry.
I have passed your feedback along to the appropriate group. If you wish to provide additional feedback regarding our products and services, please do so at the following website:
>Web URL:
http://service1.symantec.com/discuss/support/feedback2.nsf/internet+services+feedback
This web site is reviewed on a regular basis by our management and product development staff. It is the best forum to have your feedback heard.
Please note that Symantec strongly recommends that you run only one security product at a time. Having more than one security product active in memory uses additional resources and can result in program conflicts and false virus alerts. Symantec does not support our products running more than one security product at a time.
Your best defense against computer threats is to keep your definitions up
to date, and run Auto-Protect. If you choose to install more than one
security product on your computer, then only one of them should be active
in memory at a time.
Thank you for your patience and co-operation.
**End of Quote.
No surprise here, just further info for any commentary.
Regards,
Mac
Hey,
lol, Symantec is laughable, they don't even go into further details with that app and problem.
This is an common answer and not specific!
They don't answer this issue, they say you should not use an active anti-virus (lol, it's not an anti-virus app..) app at the same time you use an symantec app in background.
Yes right, it's ok, but isn't the case here, Spybot don't conflict with Norton apps and Spybot isn't realtime, only on-demand/passive, if you don't use the TeaTimer, which is optional and not used at default..
best regards,
iNsuRRecTiON
Lynn1102
2006-11-25, 01:46
I think the trend for the past few years is canned answers such as this. Open a word processor, copy this sentence, and that paragraph and send it out. Very seldom do they answer your original question. I think the want you to pick up the phone and pay them 30 or 40 dollars to find out they can't answer the same questions.
For me, any software that has live teck support (whom you can understand) is a winner, even if the program sucks.
Lynn
I've hated Norton for the last couple of years since they total my computer with NIS 2005. I don't think much to Microsoft either because of all the dogey updates that have caused all kinds of trouble for me over the years. Although I thoughly dislike Norton, Adding ANY NIS products to the definitions list would be corporate suicide since Synmantec would sue you to death and your good name would be dragged through the dirt. I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can and eventually people will decide to ditch NIS and its system destroying "Issues" (e.g. wreaking Outlook Express 6 and causing it to crash Windows when you try to shutdown the computer) for the better product that is Spybot.
This is my first post. (Sorry if my English is not good) :D:
I fully agree with Terminator. Just keep do the best you can do, that is providing us with a top quality, free and dependable product. :bigthumb:
I was surprised to read some posters in this thread recommending Bit Defender. Bit Defender does not allow the use of SpyBot and/or Spyware Blaster along with BD 9.5 and above. They are just as bad as Symantec so why is this thread just about Symantec? I ran BD 9.0 Pro just fine with Spybot and Spyware Blaster. Then BD did a forced upgrade to 9.5 which I didn't want because it had their new spyware detector. After the forced upgrade (which could not be declined), I immediately began getting BSODs on XP Pro on boot caused by BD. BD support informed me (after requesting a Belarc Advisor report) that I could not run Spybot or Spyware Blaster with BD. They said I had to remove both. I replied that Spybot was not using TeaTimer and that I had no problems using BD 9.0 with both of the applications ...that it was only with the forced upgrade to 9.5 which had BD's new spyware detector that I started encountering BSOD's on every boot caused by BD. Support was adamant, I was required to remove both Spybot and Spyware Blaster. I removed BD instead even though I had gotten the Pro version only about six months before...wasted my money. But as I told BD support, there was no way I would remove Spybot and Spyware Blaster and I asked them again if I could simply use BD 9.0 instead of 9.5 and was told no. Isn't that unreal? JavaCool told me he had no idea how Spyware Blaster could conflict with Bit Defebder and I posted here about the conflict and was told ...ho..hum...no big deal. So, I don't understand why the Symantec problem is a BIG deal worth 13 pages of posts but the conflict with Bit Defender is "ho-hum".
At any rate, this is not just a Symantec problem. I went and got KAV 2006 instead and it works great with Spybot and Spyware Blaster.
I was surprised to read some posters in this thread recommending Bit Defender. Bit Defender does not allow the use of SpyBot and/or Spyware Blaster along with BD 9.5 and above. They are just as bad as Symantec so why is this thread just about Symantec? I ran BD 9.0 Pro just fine with Spybot and Spyware Blaster. Then BD did a forced upgrade to 9.5 which I didn't want because it had their new spyware detector. After the forced upgrade (which could not be declined), I immediately began getting BSODs on XP Pro on boot caused by BD. BD support informed me (after requesting a Belarc Advisor report) that I could not run Spybot or Spyware Blaster with BD. They said I had to remove both. I replied that Spybot was not using TeaTimer and that I had no problems using BD 9.0 with both of the applications ...that it was only with the forced upgrade to 9.5 which had BD's new spyware detector that I started encountering BSOD's on every boot caused by BD. Support was adamant, I was required to remove both Spybot and Spyware Blaster. I removed BD instead even though I had gotten the Pro version only about six months before...wasted my money. But as I told BD support, there was no way I would remove Spybot and Spyware Blaster and I asked them again if I could simply use BD 9.0 instead of 9.5 and was told no. Isn't that unreal? JavaCool told me he had no idea how Spyware Blaster could conflict with Bit Defebder and I posted here about the conflict and was told ...ho..hum...no big deal. So, I don't understand why the Symantec problem is a BIG deal worth 13 pages of posts but the conflict with Bit Defender is "ho-hum".
At any rate, this is not just a Symantec problem. I went and got KAV 2006 instead and it works great with Spybot and Spyware Blaster.
I don't use Bit Defender myself, so I didn't know about this problem... but after reading it, I get the impression that all company's are starting to make certaine that you can only use their product... and so have to remove any other good free product... (it has an opposit effect on me though).
I hate that, don't they see, that it is the user that buy's a computer and it's the user who has to use the software and it's the user who decide what software he/she wants to use on that computer... It is not up to the company to decide what software the user should be able to use once their software is installed, but they don't seem to mind that...
I have the feeling that almost no-one looks at what the costumers want these days (only the free tools, listen to their costumers, but certainly not the big pay company's they are to buzy with money...)
**JameS**
2006-11-28, 23:46
:bigthumb: I agree with him Norton is a waist i had it for 7 mouths and i have a computer with 256 ram sis vid card and intel pet 3-1.2 gz's and it took 10 minets to load up. Avast is the best i'v seen yet it's been around for 20 years since 1986 so i would download 30 trial for pro or register for home edition it free but pro had more protection but go for home and i use Spybot S&D and i use AVG Anti spyware get no problem with that program it detects over 530.000 Types of spyware it problley better then Webroot anti spyware
Heres Some Programs That Are Good
1. Trend Micro Anti Virus ##NEW## Just Came Out
2. AVG Anti Spyware 7.5
3. AVG Anti Virus 7.5 Free
Yes i would Remove Norton. Any thing that was made bye norton or Part of the Software.
Yeah, I got a 256MB RAM on a computer and norton literally took 5-10 minutes to load up fully. It's just so bloated and highly annoying.
Interesting that the top brands are happy to coincide with ad-aware se (which has a professional version you have to pay for etc), but free products such as spybot, they apparently have conflicting problems.
The funny thing is, the big companies like BD and spymantec probably know what is conflicting, and infact probably intentionally made the programme to conflict with free programmes, just so that people would go for their products because you pay for them, so apparently they are better quality as such.
Symantec can't make an anti-spyware solution.;) I remember when they did try but it didn't work at all. Perhaps they nare jealous that spybot are able to do it, despite their limited resources, and who know's maybe they wanted to buy spybot, and when the spybot company refused :bigthumb: , they got angry.
Gaming4JC
2006-12-04, 23:40
I would say none of the above.
Simply Ignore Norton and his threats and stay out of it.
If they really make a mess of things then bother them by removing them completely...
A better option also would be to make some kind of script to detect how Norton tells users to remove Spybot S&D and then deny them from doing so :P
Just some thoughts :)
Gaming4JC
raiderxl7
2006-12-07, 13:40
I have noticed alot of talk about norton adaware mcafee and even pccillen mucking around with spybot and my view is that some of them are just bad configuration or poor management on the users part
norton by many technicians hes been classed as a mediocer product
mcafee Ive heard alot of complaints of its misbehaviour
and adaware Ive read reports of it conflicting with spybot
but as far as im concerned it all comes down to how you set it up
because of all the increased malware spyware and adware attacks by hackers and non trusted companies anti virus companies have tried to catch up by introducing what you might call silent scanning to detect what they think is malisious software to keep one step ahead some have even introduced regestry control into their products to have better comtrol against hackers
if i get a product like adaware conflicting with my other security programs like spybot search and destroy and teatimer I configure them until I get no more conflicts and when I had norton the program did conflict but was soon rectified by changing settings
I now run bit defender and it cooperates with spybot better than ive seen any product and as a strange coincident I know someone else who runs avg
pccillen adaware and spybot sandd and not a single trouble
..
basicly it all comesdown to this every security program wants complete control to do the job it was designed for but not all parts of the programs work as good as others by putting the one you want on to run the main components first and configuring the other programs around them their should not be a problem in the world even if the program says so because you have to configure them around them and tell the program to ignore or standby sincronise around eachother or just disable theparts that dont work for you:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
raiderxl7
2006-12-08, 07:39
from what I said eirlier pleasec do not take it the wrong way ive just run in to to many people that have had conflicts just because of a simple configuration
but according to norton and their program conflicting with spybot s&d norton is useless when you put them on they even go so far as to replace windows security center with its worm protector and when you uninstall it you cant get rid of all of it
it hangs around like a piece of spyware or adware
basicly if I were even paid to sell it I would have no trouble listing it as pups
I would however suggest that if you list it you advise the user about why it is listed and list it as unpopular software and make sure that spybot get rid of it completely better than their uninstall program or advise the user to uninstall it first then scan again and let spy bot pick up any left over debrie
and completely remove it sort of like this or similar to the above..
down with norton
ps and I surpose it wouldnt be such a bad idea to get others
like bitdefender kaspersky mcafee pccillen f-secure adaware and avast on your side to get norton to change its mindd but dont turn it into another unix wars with law suits because the one with the most money always winss
:oops: :D: :) :cool:
smokethapimp
2006-12-10, 10:13
I would not accept Norton for free on a new system. If I buy from a vendor who includes Norton as a part of their "free software" package they will either agree not to install it on my system or I will buy elsewhere. I have seen too many systems that seemed to be fragged by Norton rather than by a virus. :sick: Nuh-uh, not on my systems!!
dmick1954
2006-12-10, 18:23
I have completely quit using their products. They gobble up resources and slow down otherwise fast computers. I voted to detect them completely as a means to easily remove all their crap from our computer systems.
I am also in favor of documenting in your help files why they are being detected and how to override the detection for those foolish enough to want to continue using their products. Personally, I think that NIS and Microsoft are twin brothers with exactly the same personality traits.:sick:
C'mon
I use NIS 06, Spybot S&D 1.4, Java Cools Spyware Blaster, and Java Cools MRU Blaster. Apart from the post install warning from NIS that S&D was incompatible, which I simply ignored, I have had no problems. Each program has its' own quirks, and each is remarkable in its' own right. Stop bickering. Has it not occurred to y'all that Norton might be a little worried. U r incurring on their market share. It doesn't matter that S&D is free! What matters is NIS is not! So, lighten up! Remember, it's always the progressive elements in any argument that end up walking out on a good fight, and thus, lose the war.
Academically speaking, Tea Timer and Symantec's detection engine are incompatible with eachother. Like the wild beasts that they are, they must be tamed. Remember, we still control our machines. I hope...:crowned:
SpySentinel
2006-12-11, 01:17
I agree with 7cures, I currently have the Norton 360 Beta and Spybot with TeaTimer enabled and have no problems. I justed ignored Norton's warning about Spybot being installed and everything works fine.
bjblackmore
2006-12-11, 17:43
I wouldn't worry about Symantec! From what I've read M$ are going after them, I read somewhere that one or the other was planning a law suit. M$ are releasing OneCare, which will compete directly with NIS, and if M$ pre-bundle it with Vista, people who don't know better will use that, rather than opting for a separate product, it'll be just like the old Explorer/Netscape wars all over again!
Let M$ & Symantec fight each other like the giant beasts they are, for soon after Linux, Firefox, and Safer Networking will rise up through the ashes, and re-take home computing :fear:
flasuncoast
2006-12-11, 18:14
I have never had Nortons crash my system or know anyone who did. There are many minor imcompatability between many programs. If you have a Windows system, you have to learn to live with them - even if you don't have windows system, you have other problems. That's part of computer life.
Lynn
Wow. You've been lucky!
flasuncoast
2006-12-11, 18:28
Stop bickering. Has it not occurred to y'all that Norton might be a little worried. U r incurring on their market share. It doesn't matter that S&D is free! What matters is NIS is not! So, lighten up! Remember, it's always the progressive elements in any argument that end up walking out on a good fight, and thus, lose the war.
LOL.. I can see why someone would think this. But I remember a nasty spyware coming out.. Coolweb I think.. and complaining to Symantec Support that NAV did not detect or remove it because they said it was not a virus! SSD is not stepping on Norton market share, it's the other way around. Spybot was around long before Symantec released NIS or cared about spyware.
If NIS behaves as spyware then any reliable anti-spyware should detect it as such. However if NIS is not treated in the same way by ALL the members of the ASC then Symantec will continue to get away with their bad behavior.
Now, the biggest player in this game is Microsoft and I would be very surprised if they will add NIS to their detection list since their behaviour in the past has been far from impeccable, but if they did then Symantec might sit up and take notice.
If the ASC does not do something heavy as a unified body against Symantec then the ASC will lose its relevance and the spyware creators will fiddle while Rome burns.
It would appear that Symantec thinks that its NIS software is the great cure all in anti-spyware but my experience has shown that no single anti-spyware program can find everything.
I vowed back in 2000 never to use another Symantic product of any kind when my copy of NAV 2000 started behaving like trial ware and they were impossible to contact for help. I spent good money on dud software!
Recently they bought Power Quest whose Partition Magic and Drive Image I had been using for years and still use. I can't seem to win on this one. It seems that they have already stuffed up Drive Image. I wonder what they will do with Partition Magic 8.
Now I am on the lookout for decent software to replace them when the time comes that those two programs become obsolete. Symantec will not get another red cent out of me!
Bernie
rautamiekka
2006-12-17, 21:41
I have always hated symantec just because its products are even worse than my bro is in annoying me. If symantec tells ya, Safer Networking, to bury or something the Spybot, just answer: "chill the f**k out **sholes" and don't care about them. Sorry for that bad language but that is what I think :bigthumb:
And if you hate something or dislike it, write it with small letters, not with the first one being big. That's the way to show you don't like what you typed using small letters.
Lynn1102
2006-12-18, 00:31
Most of these programs do some good and some not so good. Example: My son downloads lots crap and recently got a trojan virus. I tried Nortons to get rid of it and Nortons said all it good. I tried SPYBOT which also said all is good. Panda and AVG all said no problem. I updated his Win xp pro and used the monthly Windows virus removal tool. No more virus.
All programs of similar types compete with each otherr on the computer - graphics programs are a good example. Each one tries to take over the computer by insisting on opening all graphics. Same type competition with I Tunes, Nero, Roxio etc. Each wants to rule the roost. You just have to tell each one which is the boss. They can work together, but we have to tell them how to do it. I do use Nortons and Spybot and AdAware. I have no problem with any of them. I do not use TeaTimer cause it won't let me upgrade my computer. I run Spybot when I want to, not when Spybot wants to. I do not run NIS, only the virus program on this machine. I have an older version of System Works on my other machine. The only thing I don't like, is the auto renewal that goes with the 2007 Version of Nortons. First thing I did was dis-able that part.
Merry Christmas or whatever.
Lynn
I donated to Safer Networking this morning and went to this forum for the first time, being surprised about the controversy over Symantec. I have found their Norton Internet Security to be the best I have tested and read reviews about in recent years. I have never needed Norton Ghost although I considered installing it or another cloning program when my HDD went bad recently; however, I decided to bite the bullet and reinstall the OS and everything else so I would be rid of an accumulation of 'cyber-sludge' -- so I am not personally aware of any Symantec directives to first uninstall Spybot for this program.
Here is my experience with Norton Internet Security (NIS) 2007 that I recently installed when my subscription to NIS 2006 was expiring. Incidentally, I have never encountered any such 'incompatibility' issues with prior NIS installations (since 2002.) When I did encounter the warning about Spybot being incompatible with the installation of NIS 2007, and to first uninstall it, I was surprised. However, I quickly learned that this only concerned the 'installation' of NIS 2007 and that I could subsequently reinstall Spybot-S&D after NIS was installed, without causing problems for either program. I did this in short order without thoughts of any devious intentions by Symantec; I even thought to myself that Spybot must indeed be powerful for a large company like Symantec not being able to design an installation program to ignore the presence of Spybot -- also, why Spybot didn't have means for my disabling it temporarily.
So, in impromptu fashion, I voted 'None of the Above' in the poll, especially since the third option seemed to be misworded if not misleading -- with the words "DO NOT (waste)" being omitted from the option, "No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware." How could such an omission or mis-wording be overlooked 'unintentionally' for an important poll when it changes the entire meaning of this option -- who would ever vote to waste donations...?
Now, having Scotch-Irish demeanor I have made plenty of phone-calls and written bunches of letters over the years concerning matters that I felt were important to be righted. And, if I had spent untold hours developing, managing and operating the Spybot program and web site (and caring so much about its quality and longevity) I would likely be taking action with Symantec myself.
However, having just now learned more about the Symantec company and its officers and policies from an internet search, I am wondering whether Symantec indeed has devious and possibly illegal intentions against Safer Networking's Spybot-S&D. Information in the following links may be pertinent to those feeling strongly enough about the subject issue to follow-up meaningfully:
Symantec's Corp. Officers:
http://www.symantec.com/about/profile/management/executives/index.jsp
Locations (found a surprise here):
http://www.symantec.com/about/profile/locations/index.jsp
Code of Conduct
(At least an indicator of their professionalism, much more than most companies):
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/89/89422/pdf/CodeOfConduct_13106.pdf
From my experiences in contacting folks at both large and small companies, I should think that Symantec's people would be more than willing to discuss the 'incompatibility' issue with PepiMK representatives and resolve matters amicably. Conversely, if a case can be made that Symantec is (even with an unproved 'likely') intentionally attempting to harm Spybot and its developers, THEN THE WHOLE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT IT, not just those at this forum or who may happen to read Spybot's home page info.
I intend to write a letter of inquiry to Symantec's CEO today, how about you? The bit about the whole world needing to know about any wrongful intentions, if true, will be highlighted but in a non-accusatory manner at this time.
It will also be interesting to read about any follow-up at the Spybot home page, or this forum.
Best Wishes,
Mac
PS - Everyone should be so fortunate as to live only 300 steps from their office.
Well...now a month later (12/18/06) and no response from Symantec. I am surprised; this is the first time in my history of calling and writing company CEO's that I haven't at least received an acknowledgement....and most times they've had specifics about their follow-up.
I also checked the ASC web site today where I find 'no' additions during the past six months or more. Neither do I find 'any' public statements or articles concerning ASC activities during this time. This makes me wonder if PepiMK's plans with ASC that started this thread are now moot, if ASC has gone to its demise like its predecessor. Regardless, the FAQ's that describe ASC and its purposes seem to preclude any means of their resolving the Spybot-S&D vs. Symantec differences anyway, check it out here:
http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/about/FAQ.html
I currently schedule Spybot-S&D to run at 3AM each day, and NIS 2007 at 5AM. Even though I'm usually around the web each day for quite awhile, Spybot usually finds nothing (I'm pretty well immunized) while NIS may find only a couple of additional tracking cookies.
So...with NIS 2007 (not 2006) now being found to be a decent if not good to excellent anti-spyware product (also proclaimed as such by professional reviews) I'm asking myself why waste memory/resources to run Spybot-S&D as well -- and, yes, I have read that running two anti-spyware products on a single computer can cause problems, much like running two anti-virus programs simultaneously.
Therefore, it seems that I need to continue with Spybot-S&D (having excellent personal results and reviews) and replace NIS 2007 with a 'straight' anti-virus program -- or continue with NIS 2007 and drop Spybot.
That's about all I can offer here that might be of any help to others. Competition in the anti-spyware world has certainly become more fierce with no end in sight.
Regards,
Mac
---------------------------
Today's popular (to some) tee-shirt containing the image of Ernesto 'Che' Guevara exclaims, "Fight Oppression," while in truth his great "revolutionary tribunals" murdered thousands of innocent 'enemies of the revolution,' while he proclaimed "Individualism must disappear!" His large mural hangs in Cuba's Ministry of the Interior, the headquarters for Cuba's KGB and STASI trained secret police of which Guevara was a founder. This setting needs to be added to the tee-shirt for all to see and understand the travesty.
[HDRW]Smee
2006-12-21, 19:32
Now, the biggest player in this game is Microsoft and I would be very surprised if they will add NIS to their detection list since their behaviour in the past has been far from impeccable, but if they did then Symantec might sit up and take notice.
And, with M$ purchase of Massive Inc. they have entered the spyware INDUSTRY. Massive's SDK is used by game creators to integrate ad pushing into the games and the gathering of personally identifiable information from gamers and others. The executables are infected, but m4d.dll must be present for it to communicate with the author. However, if it isn't there the software won't run. It is alleged that the coding for the data gathering is in that file. http://nationalcheeseemporium.org/
Bill got it and turned it over to the xbox bunch, but it infects PCs and all console games too. Wonder why Bill would need something like that?:sick:
chpalmer
2006-12-23, 19:54
I would also vote no confidence in the "Anti Spyware Coalition".
I personally, as well as many others I know have given up on Symantec products years ago, opting for other vendors products. There's just better written software out there.
CalvinOZ
2006-12-27, 01:30
Hi all,
One thing I have noticed in my part of the world (Australia) of late is that it may be VERY difficult to do anything about the Symantec invasion of systems. A LOT of machines come pre-installed with the 'free' (read trial for 90 days, and pester the life out of you for payment) versions of the Norton products.
This leaves any support person in a bad position - no way to easily remove the Symantec products :mad: You can't even 'reload' the machine from scratch because the only install media usually provided is a 'ghost' or similar image on a partition on the HDD, which 'puts the machine back' to the factory installed condition (complete with Norton products again !)
I suspect we have little hope of ever changing Symantec's behaviour whilst they are allowed to continue with practises like this !
Calvin.
xmarket88
2006-12-27, 20:41
Well,now 4 years,i bought form internet a symantec product,and guess what?i was infected once with the instalations kit,and when i send to support frmo norton,they answered that it was my fault.i reinstalled windows 2000,and then again i installed and guess what?dammit,my pc were more slow than ever,i deletes my symantec product from pc,and i sweared that i will not use anymore that product,i was very dissapointed:( my opionon is that they are trying to monopolize the marketing by "killing" first those free software which enourages the fight against the spyware and etc..my opionon guys,is that you should fight for your own rights,do not esitated,i will personaly rather donate to your campaign insteed of buyng stupid products from norton:( who destroy and slow your computes..good job guys keep the good job,i am proud to be one of Spybot users,and i am very pleased;) you do have my full support! Congrats!
Voted none of the above in the poll.
And found me a big issue with this so-called incompatibility - while it might say on a NIS 07 box about the incompatibility thing, I updated my 06 NIS about 30 minutes ago, online, downloaded the update, and discovered thta it's "incompatible" with my favourite security program bar none. Subsequently discovered this forum. Joy did not abound. Anyway, I naturally didn't uninstall Spybot, and carried on, and what eventually happened was that it corrupted the installation of nothing except AntiSpam, which is just about crap enough for me to live without it. Still, suffice it to say that I was n-o-t h-a-p-p-y. Next year? NOD32.
And about a posible cause of action for the Spybot team, seeing as I didn't vote for any of the other (cheeky!) ones?
(and despite the fact that it's either a massive oversight or a blatant attempt to crush competition under a mass of corporate flab to not ensure that NIS can install with Spybot in place)
Here's my solution: The installer picks up on SPybot v1.4 as incompatible. So, I figure a fundamentally identical new version with a slightly different name or number (may I suggest 1.5 as a catchy option?) might well slip through the net. Worth a go at least?
I was running my Symantec subscription down to zero intending to switch my anti virus and firewall to Grisoft AVG. With fourteen days to go Symantec decided to renew my subscription and charge my credit card! This of course was a "service" to me. I wish I had gotten such good care when I attempted to report a false positive to Symantec. The Tech in (foreign country) didn't even know what a false positive was!
Frank C
Lynn1102
2007-01-07, 03:10
Frank, go to their web site and opt our of the auto renewal thing. I think you can do it in your profile settings. Hope the renewal starts after the old one expires instead of right away. Don't remember who, but someone just got into lots of trouble for something like that. People renewed the contract and lost the remaining time on their present contract.
Lynn
For me it is quite obvious what kind of "business" Symantec is into!- I think they try to eliminate and damage SpybotSD because it takes costumers away from them, plain & simple!- AND they do types of marketing stunts and aggressive behavior that are so common for american vendors-; Every year they "update" or issue a new NIS or NAV200x but these new apps are built on the former software architecture but with some small changes to the dialog boxes!
Customers think they get (like me a couple of times-!) a brand new and greatly improved program, but it's like old wine on new bottles-! AND it's expensive...- If you try to be smart and just keep your app from the former year, you will see that sooner or later the support and update service will be discontinued, so you will be forced to buy a newer one,- shrewed, yes!! Meanwhile most ordinary, trustful PC owners will go on buying the new sec suite they offer, 2005-2006-2007 +...... believing the older app they have are outdated and unsafe. Symantec does NO effort to explain customers that they can keep up safety without buying the new app-! To me that is a kind of theft-!! and very illoyal & dishonest.-
So, Symantec, shape up or ship out-!! This month I'm NOT going to renew my subscribtion for def updates to NAV2006, - I will uninstall it and find another AV client, possibly a free service, some say they are pretty good...- like a SpybotSD for virus!
So: Instead of buying expensive, obstructive, annoying, resource draining, overweight/bulky security suites from arrogant or hostile vendors, do this:
Install a good, simple firewall (freeware) AND a good AV serv. from a reasonable author with respect and devotion to customers....-
AND above all: SpybotSD
Frank, go to their web site and opt our of the auto renewal thing. I think you can do it in your profile settings. Hope the renewal starts after the old one expires instead of right away. Don't remember who, but someone just got into lots of trouble for something like that. People renewed the contract and lost the remaining time on their present contract.
Lynn I think you can uninstall, clean the system(+registry) for remaining files and settings and then...... just reinstall NAV with the installer program you probably saved from the last install...! Then the update service starts all over again with a new one year service.......-!
HAAahh-!
I have noticed alot of talk about norton adaware mcafee and even pccillen mucking around with spybot and my view is that some of them are just bad configuration or poor management on the users part
norton by many technicians hes been classed as a mediocer product
mcafee Ive heard alot of complaints of its misbehaviour
and adaware Ive read reports of it conflicting with spybot
but as far as im concerned it all comes down to how you set it up
because of all the increased malware spyware and adware attacks by hackers and non trusted companies anti virus companies have tried to catch up by introducing what you might call silent scanning to detect what they think is malisious software to keep one step ahead some have even introduced regestry control into their products to have better comtrol against hackers
if i get a product like adaware conflicting with my other security programs like spybot search and destroy and teatimer I configure them until I get no more conflicts and when I had norton the program did conflict but was soon rectified by changing settings
I now run bit defender and it cooperates with spybot better than ive seen any product and as a strange coincident I know someone else who runs avg
pccillen adaware and spybot sandd and not a single trouble
..
basicly it all comesdown to this every security program wants complete control to do the job it was designed for but not all parts of the programs work as good as others by putting the one you want on to run the main components first and configuring the other programs around them their should not be a problem in the world even if the program says so because you have to configure them around them and tell the program to ignore or standby sincronise around eachother or just disable theparts that dont work for you:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
You have a point there: some sofisticated firewalls keeps track of important runtime files's MD5 sum and other system parameters like start up sections and when antivirus/spyware/adware apps also do that, they get into conflict with each other, freezing up the PC with the CPU running at 100% while the apps fight......- So: people should configure the apps so they do not make the same checks; that in turn requires a little knowledge and people are reluctant to get it, for some reason......-
I agree with 7cures, I currently have the Norton 360 Beta and Spybot with TeaTimer enabled and have no problems. I justed ignored Norton's warning about Spybot being installed and everything works fine.
Well, Windows Defender, I think is worthless.PERIOD!!- It rarely detects anything unlike other much better apps will do, so why keep it???
From March 2005 to December 2005, Symantec labeled Spybot-S&D as incompatible to Norton Ghost, and endangering backups, with no reason given to us in 19 months now. Since October 2005, Norton Internet Security has told users that Spybot-S&D would be incompatible and they had to remove Spybot-S&D.
Eleven months later, Symantec has given us just one explanation that was mostly invented and not fitting. Even though Symantec again promised changes, they have now released Norton Internet Security 2007 which again urges the user to uninstall Spybot-S&D.
We would have loved to work with them to remove any incompatibility, but although they were eager to tell their customers about these so-called 'incompatibilities', even threats of legal action could not persuade Symantec to give us any details. Well, actually they promised they would send us details, but those promises haven't been fullfilled for nearly a year. Is Symantecs Quality Assurance department so bad that they can't either find the old reports or re-test?
Both of us are members of the ASC, the Anti Spyware Coalition, a group of anti-spyware companies working together - in theory. The ASC has discussed Best Practices for half a year now. Sadly, this seems to only affect practices against malware creators, while coalition members are allowed to fight each other as much as they want.
If we created spyware instead of anti-spyware, we probably would laugh various body parts at seeing how one anti-spyware application removes the other.
Arbitration by the ASC has only resulted in broken promises by Symantec.
We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.
If you think that anti-spyware companies should fight spyware creators instead of each other, please send an email to ASC members of your choice, found here (http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/about/index.htm), and/or to the ASC itself, at asc@cdt.org.
Following that, thinking on how we could stop Symantec, we have two options: taking expensive legal steps, or behaving the same way as Symantec, accepting the removal of a competitor as a "legit" step.
Should we add detection for Norton Internet Security 2006 and 2007 as Malware or Possibly UnPopular Software (PUPS)?
* Yes, detect NIS completely!
* Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.
* No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.
* None of the above.
Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.
Please feel free to vote in this topic, and/or leave your comments, especially if you vote for option 4 (None of the above).
I do not think that anybody should be so scared about legal action in this matter: Symantec can use all the money in the world for lawsuits, they will have a bad case in Europe, anyway: not many courts of law like vending bullies and improper business behavior that reeks of monopoly/kartel forming from BIG American companies.- If the definition of spyware matches the behavior of NIS and they do not react or respond to several letters/messages, they are not winning any sympathy this side of the Atlantic ocean, where I suppose the court will be set.....- Show a little courage instead of always running like scared rabbits, there are too many cowards out there these days....-
ScottCraig
2007-01-09, 17:17
No-do not call that suite mal/spy/adware. We all know what it is. Those that don't find out soon enough. Those that don't notice--you'll never reach them.
Do please explain the truth, even in program, if you detect symantec programs on the system.
The truth is on your side. Do what you can to get it out. It's a sad fact sometimes it's better to be big and well connected than right.
Do please offer removal tools.
I just got a new system with prepackaged software. The first thing I did was remove it, and install AntiVir and Spybot s&d.
I would appreciate a one button solution to automate it. Perhaps a clean-up feature not specifically targeting them, add a few other pests like AOL and MSN and other pre-package leeches. Explain why, or not.
When I get rich and famous, I'll send you money and be your spokesman.
Scott
Hi,
I had great trepidation because of what I had read about removing Norton.
I worried for naught.
I removed Norton IS and installed Grisoft AVG with firewall.
I followed the recommended steps of Steve Winograd (MVP) here:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?query=Norton+expires&dg=microsoft.public.security.homeusers&cat=en_US_023e57db-5e84-471d-acdc-5de6595ecd0c&lang=en&cr=US&pt=&catlist=&dglist=&ptlist=&exp=&sloc=en-us
I didn’t need the Norton removal tool.
I downloaded the new AV and firewall
I disconnected from the internet
I used Add Remove Programs in the Control Panel to remove Norton I S
I only needed to do this once.
I installed Grisoft AVG and firewall and reconnected to the internet
The only folders left over were:
C:\Program Files\Symantec – empty
and
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared – one folder & one file
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\CCPD-LC – two files
I deleted these.
The AVG scan took 38 minuets against Norton’s 90 minuets. I think I’ll like it!
idahopcwizard
2007-01-10, 22:18
I run a computer repair business, and I when a customer needs a newer PC, I usually buy a dell. I know that my customers could just as easily buy it for themselves, however, when they go to turn it on they will quickly find that it is probably worse than an older 1Ghz machine because of all the junk Dell puts on it.
I know Dell does that in order to sell the PC cheaper, which is fine for me because I take it all off and put my own stuff on it. The first thing to go is Norton and MacAfee. They are total system hogs and slow the computer down substantially-not to mention they make boot up time totally unacceptable. Trend Micro is not so bad, but I still prefer NOD32 over all of them. It is fast to load, quick to detect malware and viruses, and has a very small system print. The entire program is a 10 or 15mb download and the renewal costs less than the initial purchase.
I install spybot on every system I work on, including new computers. It is the best when used in conjunction with a properly configured NOD32 antivirus software. (NOD32 by default turns of malware detection in order to speed up scanning, but you will still be safe from Trojans and viruses.)
Check them out with a free 30 day trial: http://www.eset.com
:bigthumb:
hurstbeck
2007-01-10, 22:48
I have just had to uninstall spybot in order to install NIS2007 am I safe to reinstall my spybot??
idahopcwizard
2007-01-11, 02:12
I have just had to uninstall spybot in order to install NIS2007 am I safe to reinstall my spybot??
I would reccomend not installing NAV at all. Sell it on ebay, install spybot, and then buy and install NOD32. You'll be better off, you'll enjoy your computer expierence much more, and you'll be safer from viruses and malware.
I have a virus in an email that I use to test online scanners. When I try to download it the online scanner (from hotmail or yahoo) should be able to detect it and not allow me to download the file to my computer. Hotmail uses Trend Micro and it caught the virus everytime. Yahoo, however, uses Norton, and for over a year it never caught the virus, and it was a very well known virus. It recognizes it now, but it didn't before. And when I would download it to my PC, NOD32 was all over it like fat on cheese. From that point on I will never recommend Norton again--(it used to be my favorite.)
My advice:
1-burn Norton
2-install spybot
3-buy NOD32 (free 30 day trial)
4-you won't regret it
:alien:
hurstbeck
2007-01-11, 18:11
I would reccomend not installing NAV at all. Sell it on ebay, install spybot, and then buy and install NOD32. You'll be better off, you'll enjoy your computer expierence much more, and you'll be safer from viruses and malware.
I have a virus in an email that I use to test online scanners. When I try to download it the online scanner (from hotmail or yahoo) should be able to detect it and not allow me to download the file to my computer. Hotmail uses Trend Micro and it caught the virus everytime. Yahoo, however, uses Norton, and for over a year it never caught the virus, and it was a very well known virus. It recognizes it now, but it didn't before. And when I would download it to my PC, NOD32 was all over it like fat on cheese. From that point on I will never recommend Norton again--(it used to be my favorite.)
My advice:
1-burn Norton
2-install spybot
3-buy NOD32 (free 30 day trial)
4-you won't regret it
:alien:
Thanx for the advice idahopcwizard, does NOD32 have a firewall incorperarted in its system or would I have to find a compatible firewall to work alongside it
idahopcwizard
2007-01-12, 22:56
Thanx for the advice idahopcwizard, does NOD32 have a firewall incorperarted in its system or would I have to find a compatible firewall to work alongside it
I would use the free Zone Alarm firewall, it will work for you. NOD32 scans all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic and will block or prevent a trojen or virus from infiltrating your machine.
I only use Windows firewall because I don't like messing with them (I like to game, and pesky firewalls make life difficult.) :red:
http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/catalog/products/sku_list_za.jsp?dc=12bms&ctry=US&lang=en&lid=nav_za
:rolleyes:
BigRedNeck
2007-01-13, 13:45
I have to agree with most of the replies here (I do not recommend any Symantec product), however I must also call out Safer Networking concerning their debacle with the intrusive and damaging DRM (root-kits) installed by some Sony products that were given a pass and ignored by Safer Networking who refused to add them to the list of definitions.
I find it patently hypocritical and shameful to criticize Symantec while letting Sony dictate your tune.
If the Sony issue has not yet been rectified, Safer Networking lacks credibility in the Symantec issue.
I have to agree with redneck... It's just my approach has always been, use what's available, until something better comes along. Hell, until two years ago, I was happy w/windows98. 2000 was a piece of crap, xp is invaded every month, and linux requires a little command line savvy, or at least, vi savvy! Being an old BSD apprentice, as well as doing the dos-e-do for over a decade and a half, I was TIRED of typing. Now here's a story; I was in the midst of downloading something or other, when both spybot and NIS are alarming me DANGER! video.codec virus! NIS wouldn't kill it, and would not quarantine either. Spybot to the rescue. I killed it three times with the standard spyware hunt, then broke it's legs with system internal scan, then successfully quarantined it by manually dragging the cloaking icon ( Spyware buster or something ) into the quarantine area of NIS. And it worked!! If spybot had a quarantine cage, NIS would have been a completely useless bystander. P.S. I sent Symantec that little jewel, from quarantine, and u know what. They correctly ID it then told me it would require assisted removal. Darned right. Safer networking to the rescue! I still keep both, because NIS has saved my system in the past. Both applications together make a formidable defense! JavaCools gets a mention here, 'cause it correctly ID'd the menace first!:bigthumb: :bigthumb:
idahopcwizard
2007-01-16, 00:04
P.S. I sent Symantec that little jewel, from quarantine, and u know what. They correctly ID it then told me it would require assisted removal. Darned right. Safer networking to the rescue! I still keep both, because NIS has saved my system in the past. Both applications together make a formidable defense! JavaCools gets a mention here, 'cause it correctly ID'd the menace first!:bigthumb: :bigthumb:
Check out NOD32's reputation--100% detection on viruses in the "wild"-or viruses that haven't been updated into the definitions. I haven't found a foe that NOD32 hasn't been able to stop. It scans incoming and outgoing internet traffic, as well as programs and rootkits. You can aslo set it to scan certain email and internet ports for even more protection.
http://www.eset.com
100% detetion: http://www.eset.com/company/200612.pdf
jules_swest
2007-01-17, 10:46
I'd have gone for none of these.
Instead of spending money on legal channels (just the lawyers get rich in that case)-how about spending some of the money on publicity? Of course stating that SBSD is compatible with Norton-being careful at the same time not to slander Symatic or whatever they are.
Aim publicity at the pc magazine sector. eg computer active, webuser etc.
I'll probably email one of the coalition members, but would appreciate guidance in what to say as I'm not very technical.
Lynn1102
2007-01-18, 02:30
I have Nortons, Spybot, and Adaware all installed on this machine and have no problems with any of them. They co-exist fine. I had a problem with spybot, but after getting rid of tea timer, all work ok. Tea Timer would not let me do hardly anything without popping up and telling me I had a problem.
As for the install, if you read the instructions from Nortons, and remove spybot till you install Nortons, then reinstall Spybot, all is good. To remove and re-install Spybot takes about 2 minutes tops. You guy have spent hours on here complaining about it. I talked to my local dealer about this and he was aware of all the complaints - he said it sounds like his kids when one gets a bigger cookie than the other. At this point, I think you are giving Spybot a bad name because of all the complaining.
When you install similar programs on a system, each one will try to take first place. Media player is first. Install Real player and it knocks out media player and take first place. Same with Quicktime, ITunes and all the rest. They all want to open every song or every video you have on the system or try to download. You have to make them behave the way you want them to, just like the kids.
Install Nero, Nero takes over - install Roxio and it takes over from Nero. This is a normal (if you can call it that) windows operation. I haven't had a virus attack in years with my setup. I have some spyware and some ads that spybot missed and adaware missed. I did have to find them and manually remove them, so nothing is perfect. I like and use all of them.
Lynn
I work in computer support, and I have seen the weirdest things connected with Norton - slowing the PC down terribly, disabling network or internet capabilities, I even once had a brand-new PC and was supposed to install Norton on it - it crashed during installation and refused to uninstall the regular way!
At clients I usually recommend to dump it and go with one of the not so huge companies (i.e. McAfee isn't better either), and either I'm a good sales person (ick!) or people agree with my argumentation...
I'm not sure if detecting and possibly removing Norton will solve the issue - most likely it'll cause more problems. On the other hand what else is there to do?
I would definitely go ahead with the motion to have them kicked out of the Antispyware club (if this has not happened yet - didn't read the whole thread - just found it).
If you want to detect it as PUP, do it the same way as with the ebay toolbar: give the OPTION to remove it (leave the checkbox unchecked) - Norton is a slight bit better than having no protection at all, and removing all protection is not a good choice either. Also add a good detailed info text to it.
I have worked on literally hundreds of computers, and Spybot is on the top of my list of must-have programs - keep going!
Recently joined this forum and found this debate on Norton, I purchasd the product thinking I was doing the right thing, regret it crashed and locked my PC. I then had to clean the HDD and clean install my O/S. The norton disks are now at the bottom of the pile and will never see the light of day, what a waste of money.:sad:
Jackbratt1976
2007-01-22, 06:07
From what I've seen here I think the majority would agree that if it's a choice of Norton 2007 or Spybot S&D in combination with another anti-virus, they will choose to keep Spybot and dump Norton, I know that I did. I have Yahoo mail, which as we all know uses Norton, and have gotten infected attachments from people who later told me they sent no attachment. Their system couldn't possibly be infected they would tell me, because they had Norton(ha!). I got my first real desktop 2 .5 years ago and it 2 weeks before the vaunted Norton was chopped to pirces and spit out along with my OS. I had to go purchase a new copy of Windows XP because the partition was parted so the OEM was gone too. Then I learned about recovery discs,lol:red:. The same with Venus Spy-Trap. Then I tried Webroot Spysweeper which worked fine until I tried to install a program that required using the password, well I had made such a cryptic note to self for the password that I couldn't decipher or remember it, big joke on me! Since the password never goes upstream it can't be retrieved or reset:oops: :mad: . Then I found out about Spybot from a professor who teaches IT courses, hallelujah! It has saved me many times when McAfee has fallen flat on face, that and ZoneAlarm, recommended by the same teacher. I took those two in addition to McAfee, it was just about impenetrable. Then McAfee changed their suite and is no longer compatible with anything. Well being stingy I left McAfee on the desktop, but I had just bought a laptop and that's where the Spybot and the other programs are at or going to be:mad: . :cool: The whole thing makes me want to say that ever famous phrase "Why can't we all just get along?". After I paid for McAfee's new suite I kept getting alerts, penetrations, and glitches that kept shutting down the various security programs. So I called up McAfee, since they were the priciest I figured they could afford to pay support on the weekends which is always when the interesting things happen to ones PC, and asked him what this error message meant and told him what happened. After a few questions he then informed me like I was an idiot child that for McAfee to work properly there had to be no other security programs on the computer because their program needed to have exclusive use of some common files that most security programs use. In other words it was built to not play well with others:sick: . Then why are they common files? I will definitely not be renewing my subscription to McAfee when it expires. There is a tempermental but brilliant man in Croatia making a program called Remove-IT Pro XT which seems to be quit efficient and if you have the knowledge or the nerve also gets you into the guts of the system. Me I don't touch 7/8 of that stuff, but it's there if needed. Added Spybot and I'm going to re-install ZoneAlarm on the laptop that I took off the desktop and that's the last of my rant on the subject (had to let it out somewhere,lol).:eek:
nOInfectIOn
2007-01-22, 15:40
It is not only NIS - the public beta "Norton360" warned me too, while I was installing it,
and suggested - how surprising - the complete deinstallation of S&D!
This yellow procedure makes a really bad impression!
My personal standard-arguments for the annually yellow purchasing:
"play safe", "it's better to be on the safe side", "better safe than sorry" ... et cetera ;)
But now I am really not sure of next upgrade any more.
Greetings from good old Germany, noi-
Rigatoni
2007-01-22, 16:37
A lot of people think that Norton products ARE malware! I made the mistake of using Norton products and they were next to useless, actually WORSE than useless, in protecting my system. I say fight fire with fire and see how Norton like it! :devilpoin:
I used Norton for three years, assuming it was the best because so popular. But I didn't like the senseless battle it seemed to have with Windows Defender, and when I needed to renew my subscription, I found it impossible to navigate the website properly. So it seemed simplest just to ditch it there and then, and change (to the AVG Internet Security Suite).
Then I discovered the complexities of uninstalling it - it wouldn't uninstall cleanly in the usual way, and needed the special 'Norton Removal tool'. My heart was in my mouth throughout the process until I finally cleared out the last vestiges of it, by which time it was definitely a case of 'good riddance'.
Well...
Since I last wrote on the subject, I have shifted away from NIS. I still have it in my system, but since i am able to manipulate my XPSP2 system to do everything but cook me dinner, I am loathe to change my bodyguards. I kinda look at Symantec as my Department of Defense. And it has successfully responded to some threats, and the firewall is sound. Safer Networking is my CIA. Sorry,for the analogy guys. I am trying to be positive about about all this. I simply get the "Straight Poop" from Safer Networking, and use it's agents to annihilate any threats.Java Cools is my Secret Service, and it works wonderfully in tandem with Safer Networking. If I turn off IE protection in one to make changes, the other responds in kind, allowing seamless changes to my system. So, I have the best of all worlds, and am loathe to change. And, Secunia.com is my UN. I go to them for advisories, and advise all to do the same. Their System Checker is the best in the business.
Running Grid applications fulltime as I do (World Community Grid), I simply do not care for turf wars. There is too much computing and crunching of terrible importance to be swayed into this argument. But, whatever may come, I am behind Team Spybot to the end!!!:angel:
sprint250
2007-01-25, 19:45
I am fairly new to todays computers.
I upgraded from a VIC 20 in 1999 to a Windows 95/98 machine.Had to learn alot ,quickly,as I had to basicly hot rod the "new platform" to get it to perform acceptably. Faster processor, more ram, bigger HD , some cards ,all the usual tricks.
It was costing a little extra to do it this way but I justified it because I was learning at the time.
What I ended up learning is this:
Computers are marketed like cars,use them for about 5 years then trade them in on something new.There will always be something new in the works ready to obsolete what you just bought the day you walk out of the store.
Forget about any support after 5 (to 7? dreaming) years.
Sadly much of the software is marketed the same way.I originally had Norton / Symantec products installed on my computer.
Antivirus
Utilities
Crash Gaurd
Clean Sweep / Internet Sweep...
Life was easy, just hit live update and stay current.Renew the subscription every year. PROTECTION or so I thought.
Problems were usually encountered when trying to run Windows system tools because the Symantec products would not turn off during these applications.Had to go in and manually disable Symantec apps. unless of course you chose to run the Norton Utilities then all was good.
One day I get the notice to renew the subscrition for my Norton product.
"the product you are using is no longer supported by Symantec.You must choose one of the following packages to continue to recieve.... blah, blah ,blah"
Like a fool I accepted their upgrade package to Norton Internet Security 2004.
After installing their new product what performance my machine did have went straight into the toilet.
Their software hogged up the resources so bad that the machine was useless for anything except email.
The worst part was their software still was no good at snagging spyware, adware and malware.Symantec was slow on the draw when it came to this market and they got left behind.They are still taking baby steps.
It seems to me that maybe Symantec is ,like a lot of big businesses end up after a while, suffering from N.I.H.S. (not invented here syndrome) .That is to say ,if they did not develop,buy/aquire or outright steal an invention or product they will deny the existance of it or try to defame it because it poses a threat to their "market share".
I had to install Spybot S&D to help root out the threats it can detect in my computers.This is something the Symantec product was incapable of doing.
After suffering with Symantec for two more years I again was sent another renewal notice proclaiming that my"new" 2 year old internet security software was obsolete and a new upgraded version was available for about 50 bucks or so ,disc optional.Disc of course I want the disc I'm payin' for it so send it!
This time I got smart & opted out because of the smell.
Symantec stole a page right out of the Microsoft playbook.Trying to sell bits and pieces of what was probably in the original version of the software as a totally "new " software version every two years.
If it makes billions it must be a good business model.
I grew weary of their slick marketing antics (sym - antics) and have since gone elsewhere for antivirus protection that is less expensive and not a systems resource hog for all my machines.
The real eye opener was uninstalling their software and finding out how much junk it leaves behind.It had roots everywhere.:eek:
And I thought AOL & Real Player were hard to get rid of.
Although I have 3 newer computers now we still use the old one as a "Mule" for performing mundane tasks and letting grand children play games on.
It can actually run applications now that will do some meaningful work with out hanging up all the time.
I do not begrudge Symantec ,or any business for that matter ,the right to make a profit and/or improve their products.I just do not appreciate being played by their marketeering department.
It's like every two years they were trying to tell you they had reinvented toilet paper.Hey guess what? Its still toilet paper.:D:
The information superhighway is littered with wrecks of old hardware and software that shoulda ,coulda, woulda , if only.
Auditor:A person who goes in after the battle is lost and bayonets the wounded.
Attorney: A person who goes in after the auditors to strip the bodies.
In the end the attorneys end up consuming what money is left.
Just keep making the best product you know how and don't take any crap from some corporate monolith.
:)
swamper777
2007-01-26, 13:49
You asked: "If you think that anti-spyware companies should fight spyware creators instead of each other, please send an email to ASC members of your choice, found here, and/or to the ASC itself, at asc@cdt.org."
I've been working in networking security for more than a decade, and in the computer business since 1982. I installed NIS 2007 alongside Spybot, ignoring the warning, and both appear to be working just fine.
I like Spybot!
That said, here's my answer: None of the above.
Here are my reasons why, given the other choices you listed. I'll follow with what I believe is the best course of action.
1. Yes! Detect NIS completely! - And do what? If you remove NIS, software from a much larger and long-trusted entity in the computer security field, it will only hurt Spybot's reputation.
2. Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people. - Sadly, human nature being what it is, this will only cause people to recognize that you have a beef with a much larger and long-trusted entity in the computer security field. Again, while it might cause some people to doubt Symatec's integrity, it will cause many people to doubt
3. No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware. - Why waste anything? I fear that Symantec has both time and money on it's hands, and if they haven't resolved the issue yet, they're not likely to resolve it at all.
Additional thoughts: Symantec, like any corporation, would love to take over the world, becoming the best of the best of the best, and reaping the corresponding profits. They didn't think very seriously about spyware a few years back, but Spybot did. Now they'd like to add that feature to NIS, but know that they will face non-winable and potentially very expensive legal actions if their implementation of it looks too much like your own. So, they've taken a softer approach by adding the warning label and giving users a chance to unintall Spybot.
It's simple competition, combined with what might possibly be construed as "unfair business practices." However, that would take a lot of time and money to prove that in court, and Symantec might actually have a valid "incompatibility" built into NIS 2007 which would seal their deal. It's unlikely that any court would be able to see through the fact that the incompatibility was either built-in, or believe that Symantec had any compelling legal reason to work out a solution to the incompatability with you or others.
Thus, here's what I think you should do: Continue with your resolution to bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel. Although the lack of the ASC membership label in Symantec's advertising won't hurt them materially, it will give them significant pause for thought, and it might prompt them to come to the table and reconsider the "incompatability issue" and work out a solution with you. Second, it will send a clear message to other ASC members that excluding the others through "incompatibilities" is a no-no. Third, if, after bringing the ASC motion were leaked to the press, the negative attention would do far more to motivate Symantec to play fair than all the legal action and ASC motions combined, if it's spun right.
Thus, I'd also recommend you change your web page to simply report that there's an apparent incompatability, but a thorough series of tests has clearly demonstrated that no such compatabilities exist, and that users are encouraged to continue the install without removing Spybot Search and Destroy, as doing so would seriously reduce overall system security by removing functions which are not a part of the NIS suite.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Steven L. Janss, President
Jansys Information Systems
It's finally there!
http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/documents/:
Conflicts Resolution Document
Anti-Spyware software, as part of its operation, regularly interfaces with parts of a computer's operating system that control specific and low-level pieces of architechture. Multiple pieces of software all attempting to operate on the same low-level controls can cause conflicts. This document is intended to provide voluntary guidelines within the Anti-Spyware industry to assist in avoiding and resolving conflicts between suites of Anti-Spyware software and to better serve consumers.
The guidelines are probably not perfect, but a huge step towards fair competition (right now, it speaks about voluntary guidelines, which may be the reason we hear about Norton 360 from you instead of from Symantec). Here's another quote from the ASCs press release, which asks for comments (please do not spam them with flame wars :) ):
As is the case with all ASC materials, both the Best Practices and the Conflict Identification and Resolution Process are intended to be living documents that evolve with the rapidly changing software environment. The ASC will hold an official public comment period for the next month. To comment, visit http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/comments/ .
Well, let me use this post to thank anyone who has commented here, giving us moral support (that was indeed very helpful when the frustration came again up from time to time). Oh, and next to the moral support, this has also inspired an idea about how we could give more power into the hands of our users... can't speak of any details yet since its not finished, but rest assured that it'll lead to a solution that should satisfy all voters on this topic :D:
simon_naji
2007-01-26, 20:26
I joined the forums because of this very issue, having just been forced to remove Spybot when I had to update to Norton Internet Security 2007.
My question is a very practical one. If I reinstall Spybot while Norton is still on my machine, am I going to run into problems?
Thanks in advance.
Simon
md usa spybot fan
2007-01-26, 21:14
simon_naji:
Many people have apparently have installed Norton Internet Security 2007 without uninstalling Spybot. But to answer your question directly, according to the following Symantec support article you can not only install Norton Internet Security 2007 with Spybot installed as long as you answer the TeaTimer registry change pop-up correctly, but you can also reinstall Spybot after the installation of Norton Internet Security 2007:
Message: "Spybot - Search & Destroy has detected an important registry entry that has been changed." when installing Norton Internet Security 2007
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sharedtech.nsf/0/2f5f420bd905ac77882571e0005e8f21?OpenDocument
Note: The original reference to that article was published by macbd1 (http://forums.spybot.info/member.php?u=14647) in the following post:
http://forums.spybot.info/showpost.php?p=54074&postcount=117
nOInfectIOn
2007-01-27, 18:44
It's finally there!
http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/documents/:
The guidelines are probably not perfect, but a huge step towards fair competition (right now, it speaks about voluntary guidelines, which may be the reason we hear about Norton 360 from you instead of from Symantec).
At the moment I am testing WindowsBeforeLindenCare and there has been no problem with Spybot during installation... The big M only wanted to kill NIS :D:
-ion
WhiteFox
2007-01-28, 20:00
:mad:
My first truly disgusting experience with Symantec was after installing Systemworks 2006. The program literally took over every function of the operating system, pop-ups everywhere...this software was worse than a virus attack. I attempted to uninstall. This effort proved impossible and I now find hundreds of references to Symantec scattered throughout my registry.
I have just received (one year later) a notice that my credit card has been billed "automatically" for one more year of service. I did not subscribe to this automatic service. Symantec support web site took over 1/2 hour to negotiate un-subcribe from the "automatic update charges", but nothing mentioned about returning the charges they have just made without my consent.
3 thumbs down for the product, the web site and the customer service.
We are not amused by Symantec's refusal to co-operate with other members of the ASC. I vote to add a Symantec de-installer and registry cleaner to Spybot and would gladly pay for such a program.
Good Work, SpyBot team!
-WhiteFox
Tattenbach
2007-01-29, 20:46
Thumbs up for the whole Spybot S&D team!
But, please, do not wear yourself out in an accusations battle against Symantec. Instead continue publicly and officially requesting them explanations/reasons.
Spybot is, by its own right, a excellent program, and a lot of people out there know it, and recommend it. Norton Internet Security is a bloated hog, more and more people are realizing it.
Going into legal battle with them will only make lawyers richer. It's better to use that money in useful manners, like supporting the site, or increasing traffic for mirrors.
IMHO, using the same tactics as Symantec uses (detecting NIS as malware) is just as bad as they are, and will tarnish Spybot's track record. Don't act like them.
If you want to get back at them, if Spybot detects NIS installed or being installed on the computer, warn the user of the situation and direct them to this post or a special page talking about this. Let the word out! :oops:
And don't leave the coalition, that's what they want!! Hang in there! :wink::
Keep up the fabulous work! :2thumb:
I joined the forum to post a reply to the Poll
I dont think that it would do Spybot any good to get into a big fight with
Symantic, The would simply throw Money at the problem until it was gone
and hurt Safer Networking in the process.
When Peter Norton started out, the products were good and they did their job. However they are no longer efficent or good at what they are supposed to do!
I bought my first computer 15 years ago and started building them for myself (and as time went by for others as well as helping other with their computer problems) about 9 years ago. I stopped using Symantec products when they became so invasive, annoying, & bloated that they caused my systems to crash. I currently use Zone Alarm (free edition), AVG Anti Virus (free), Spybot Search and Destroy (free), Ad-Aware Personal (free), Spyware Blaster (free) and IE Privacy Keeper (free). I have NEVER had any problem that this combination could not handle!
I use the free editions so that I can recomend them to the people that I help with their computers, many of them are on limited budgets, as they are retired or students or just getting started.
I have lost track of the number of machines I have worked on that had problems because of Symantec Products that either slowed the machine to a crawl, crashed it or failed to do the job it was supposed to do.
I voted 'None of the above'. I think if Spybot does any kind of marking or removal of Symantec software it will lower itself to the level of the big corporations.
In addition, Symantec is doing a good job of killing itself among the 'educated' user community. Unfortunately, no matter how unfairly, if Symantec products are pre-installed on an 'uneducated' user's machine, having Spybot imply it's bad will only give the impression that Spybot doesn't work.
Therefore I think Spybot should just carry on the good work, act professionally towards Symantec and win by out-performing them.
brthomas
2007-02-08, 23:03
I oppose degrading Spybot's software in an attempt to get revenge on Symantec. I oppose spending money on legal action against Symantec since a big company will win due to their greater cash resources.
Symantec SystemWorks also claims a conflict with WinPatrol, but BillP the maker of WinPatrol has assured me that there is no problem. This is now looking like a pattern of sleazy business behavior by Symantec trying to suppress small companies.
I support using the full power of the Internet to publicize Symantec's bad behavior, shame Symantec wherever possible and encourage people to avoid buying Symantec products. I also support development of a Symantec uninstaller/registry cleaner for those who want to clean that bloatware from their computers.
Many of my friends have also had serious problems when downloading Symantec software online, then installing and registering their purchases. This is another sign of a once fine company that is no longer dong a good job, and yet another reason to avoid purchasing Symantec software.
Toreador
2007-02-10, 00:06
When i got my first computer in 2000(a 2000me version) we had nortan anti virus installed. it was useless and on a 30 day trial! i hated it. it was hard to remove. space consumeing and it couldnt detect or remove anything at all.
thats why i voted detect NIS completely, and also becouse it doesnt sound like NIS has changed. I also reckon legal action should be taken. for "Loss of profit" and "Defimation" etc whatever you can do...
Tor
I want to know when NIS is infecting my PC ;) I've had more users infected using NIS than any other package.
Keep up the good work and don't let them push you out of the ASC. Just start asking Trend, McAfee & CA what if it was their software being maligned.
Aloha
I've finally fallen off the fence. NIS is definitely Malware of this worst sort, and I suspect them of keylogging,:spider: though I admit to being light on proof. I uninstalled NIS 2006 the other day, and voila,,,, My system becomes , well sort of, stable... page file usage dropped almost 60 MB! I'm using Avast now, and am a happy camper:bigthumb: NIS gets a vote change from me. ID it as malware. They lucky I don't sue them Go Team Spybot:angel:
Please add my vote for option #1 .
I have long been at odds with Norton for their practices .
Their NIS products are a prime example of Bloatware and unnecessary overhead . I cannot count the machines that I have removed NIS / Norton Antivirus from . My alternative is to use the built-in Firewall in Windows XP and to advise my customers to download and use AVG Free for Antivirus detection . Their computers run smoother and have far fewer instances of random lockups and slowdowns . I also recommend Spybot Search & Destroy and Adaware SE .
I thought that with the Advent of Windows XP SP2 that Symantec had seen their last days in the market . I don't think a single NAV / NIS installation survived the download and install of SP2 .
I was certain then that Micro$oft had targeted Norton and built-in some code that trashed the Norton installs . I just wish that they had followed through with the Micro$oft Antispyware give-away model and actually provided an Antivirus program as an integral part of VISTA. I guess we can add this to our Christmas Wish List .
Thanks for allowing me to vent .
Ken Tarver
metafora9
2007-02-20, 08:32
I as many of you gals and guys have try NAV and for more part I had suffer from the very same troubles you just said. I think that NAV behaive in my computer as an spyware. Based on that and the outstanding service by Spybot, I will vote for option # 1
and Yes. I can sleep well after my choice. Let support the good work.;)
Phillip52
2007-02-22, 15:41
I have been a customer of Norton for about seven years. I have bought upgrades of their Internet Security the last three years. Being about to do the same this year, I read at Amazon that Norton requested people to uninstall Spybot Search and Destroy.
I suddendly realized that I have much more confidence on Spybot that in big Norton. There was no way I will drop Spybot just because they did not want me to keep it. After a bit of research, I ordered a different security suite.
Thank you to all of you who make Spybot.
I've used NIS for the past three years and hated the resource hog. After this fiasco with Spybot, I finally dumped the crap and went with Kaspersky. Boy! did it find stuff Norton missed. I'll never give up my Spybot . . . and one day, I will contribute. :red:
Whenever i am asked to sort out a PC the first thing i do is remove NIS or norton antivirus.
this product is like a virus, its difficalt to remove (almost imposible in some cases) and hogs resoures, just like malware and viruses, and it keeps wanting to contact home, another virus/malware like personality.
I would be greatfull to see an option in spybot to remove norton antivirus completly, it would save me a considerable amount of time, and it would release at least 50% of most peoples cpu resources to do better things.
I always then install antivir, as a virus scanner and then spybot with its registry protection/update blocker.
In many cases the installation of spybot and antivir after removing NIS/NAV detects at least 30 bits of spyware and several viruses.
I keep asking myself why companies like pc world and many small pc outlets keep promoting this product, but then again take a look at these companies, see a resemblance.
regards peter
My subscription to Norton ran out, and I read Pepi's post about Symantec's unprincipled and wrongheaded position, and together with the high price and HUGE resource requirements (my laptop is only a P-4 2.6GHz/533FSB w/512Mb - I run Linux on my production machines.. :bigthumb: ) that substantially slowed my computer I decided to look for another anti-virus program. I discovered that Avast Anti-Virus is free for non-commercial, personal, use and includes free daily updates. I tested it, using both new and some VERY old virii and it found and dealt with them all immediately. It's simple to install and use, works good, and is free! You cannot ask for more!
In addition, Kasperski is reasonably priced, fast, and solid with extensive technical credentials.
My sister has been using AVG for over 3 years in her software company and is very satisfied; it is both reasonably priced, fast, and very well done (great interface, features). She swears by it.
These are the ones I personally know about - there are several others that are reportedly just as good.
NO anti-virus programs that I know of take such a toll on system resources and performance as the Norton/McAfee engine, or cost as much to use.
There is just no excuse to install, or renew, Norton/McAfee when there are so many other better programs available!
After 34 years as a Programmer, Interface Designer, and Metrologist (scientific measurement) one learns that life is too short to use expensive, sluggish, bloated software.
Dump Norton and enjoy the added speed and lowered [or eliminated] cost! You will be glad you did.
fudoki
Hellbound45
2007-03-07, 06:44
*grabs pithfork* DEATH TO SYMANTEC :D
But seriously, symantec is just a company like AOL (charging the most for the least of service)
Rip out Symantec like the octopus that it is. Their lousy software and renewal practices and now bad business practices have made me have it up to here with them. Any one I help out now, once Norton is up for renewal, I tell them to move on to something that won't bring their pc to it's knees.
Spybot is a wonderful product, it has always had the same ethic, to help people who are being sabotaged by malicious software. I have been using them for years and they keep a simple and straightforward interface with constant updates.
Keep up the good work.
nOInfectIOn
2007-03-12, 21:07
I am really not sure of next upgrade any more.
Hi pholX,
following decision was/is not a "fast shot" - it took some weeks, testing lot of software: McAfee, Microsoft, ZoneAlarm, f-secure... and: G-Data [from my personal point of view: WOW - really amazing stuff (@PepiMK: Is the deep west of Germany, "wo die Sonne versinkt", the new I/O-paradise ;) ?) !!!]...: I will not upgrade any more!
@SB-Team: Don´t leave the ASC!
Herzliche Grüße, NOInfectIOn
I think that Symantecs NIS is nowadays more often the cause of problems than the cure for them. I think having the possibility to remove NIS related products would be welcome by many, but this should be done so that you'd have to explicitly search and destroy NIS from advanced options to discourage Symantec from suing you :)
Having used other antivirus softwares for years, I'd recommend avast from alwil-software, because it's free for home-users and it can scan/clean the computer during bootup while most of the viruses are eraseable.
-----
Machiavelli
2007-03-20, 01:35
Forgive me if I sound like yet another echo in the hall, which I know I probably will...but there are some points where one has to call things as they see it.
Much of my IT experience has been spent with ISPs, some of them fairly large ones. I'm currently a supervisor for one of them, so I get to deal with quite a bit in the way of customer complaints. At home I tinker quite a bit with my computer - install one program, remove another, add and remove some hardware here and there, try another OS - you name it. It's what I do, something I've done for years. I like putting these things to the test because it gives me experience with the software, and hey, part of my job occasionally sees me giving out software recommendations. Like I said, it's what I do; that's all there is to it.
Over the years I've been doing this I've managed to give thousands - probably more, but I haven't exactly been keeping count - of customers recommendations for programs to keep their computers safe. To those of us who've been in the IT field for any length of time, most of the "recommendations" I'm giving out are old-hat common sense suggestions. Of course, the end user probably isn't all that experienced with security, and the majority of those who actually know enough to really be concerned with it usually haven't gotten there until well after the damage is done already. In any event, I dare say that fully one-third of my work winds up being proving to a customer that the reason they're not getting online is related to some sort of virus/malware/firewall issue - and remember: most of my work is at the escalation level, so that means the people the customer talks to that aren't supervisors probably see a lot more in the way of customers with this type of problem.
Of course, once we find the problem, we make recommendations as to what a customer can do to remedy the situation. One of the programs I've always recommended just happens to be Spybot-S&D. I (rather shamefacedly, now) admit that for a while, I was also recommending - yeah, you guessed it - Symantec's products...though one thing I've always been damned careful to note (and maybe this is my saving grace point?) is that even though NAV claimed to check for spyware, customers were always better off getting another program to remove spyware, just in case something is missed. (For that reason, to this day, I still keep Ad-Aware and Spybot installed on my computer.)
Hang on, I'm getting somewhere with this inane babbling.
Back in '04 I had Norton Internet Security installed on my then computer (a 2.07 Athlon running Windows 2000 on 512 MB of RAM)...and man, you wanna talk about "resource hogs"...
I swear, that was probably the most resource-hogging security application I've ever run. To date, it's also the only security software I've ever had installed on any of my computers that's actually caused me to lose internet access - I actually had to disable NIS to get online. That's bad right from the cut.
Another thing: even then the program flagged me as a Spybot user, and of course it threw up its hands in disgust when it saw it. However, in running the two side-by-side for once, not once did Spybot ever cause a problem with Norton. Odd, no?
I mention the installation of NIS because of a disturbing trend I've noticed through my job. That trend is that of all the times I'm likely to tell a customer to call their firewall maker due to their firewall causing an internet connection problem, NIS is the one most likely to blame (read: installed on the customer's computer) - bar none. Maybe it's a configuration problem. Maybe the customer blocked something they didn't mean to. I don't know, but you've gotta wonder...and when one considers the fact that there's gotta be someone making the same mistake with McAfee, with ZoneAlarm, or whatever other firewall you want to name, there's something that doesn't add up...and it doesn't look good for Symantec.
I'm not necessarily posting to praise Spybot or blast Symantec. However, I've always had a grudge against larger companies (probably my own little rebellious streak manifesting), and I've always been a staunch supporter of getting the full truth out there...and seeing a big entity like Symantec beat on the little guy (no offense intended) for what basically amounts to no good reason other than turning a quick profit doesn't sit well with me - and when one considers that I had the devil's own time removing Norton from my computer, along with everything else I've mentioned, we see that not only is there a foot in the land of the dishonest, there's a chair in the land of hypocrites as well. (At least such is my opinion. Whether you decide it's fact or not is, of course, something I leave up to you.)
With that said, I'd love nothing more than for Spybot to call NIS malware and remove it. However, that would probably give Symantec the nudge to try their hand at a defamation/libel lawsuit, and unfortunately, if they do that, they stand a damn good chance of winning. I don't think I need to say that that would potentially spell the death knell for Safer Networking. Detecting a few "harmless files" could also run into the same roadblock. That means - unfortunately for my sadistic streak - the best options of the ones Pepi is suggesting would be option three: keep it clean and do it legally. Beyond that, we all need to band together and tell people "look, there are better programs out there that will do the same job Norton does that probably cost less anyway", and thus make Symantec lose money the old-fashioned way: boycott it and give their potential earnings to the other guys. (At least most of the other ones play nice!)
By the way, for those of us who are curious, I'm running Spybot, Ad-Aware, NOD32, and Comodo behind a Linksys router with a built-in SPI firewall.
Hello, NIS 2005 was given with my laptop when I bought it last christmas (yes its old for a computer sold in 2006).
Don't think it was a gift, just a crap on my system ;) so I downloaded the remover and Bye Bye NIS !
Now I use BitDefender Internet Security 10, it's much better than Norton, I added Spybot. My computer is perfectly clean and if I get infected, I know how to disinfect it :D
I think you should add NIS 2004 to 2007 to the PUPS because it's really hard to remove without the symantec remover, like a spyware, and it decreases the computer security by asking the user to remove almost any another security software for the last version (can't use another firewall, antispy or antispam with 2007 I think).
In conclusion NIS is a sh*t !!
Lancelot
2007-03-24, 15:23
"Yes detect NIS completely."
I am not using the Tea Timer, so I hope NIS and Spybot will work peacefully together on my machine.
nOInfectIOn
2007-03-24, 18:15
I hope NIS and Spybot will work peacefully together
...good one! :cool:
Hmm, first casulty of IT-war would be...? confidence?
fan of spybot
2007-03-27, 15:06
Yes Spybot should do that for NIS.Since last 5years Iam using Spybot and its a fanatstic products to say always update with the time.I dont remember how many people I recommended this product and everybody say its nice.Any cybercafe I visit if I found the problem with IE browser I installed this product to browse smoothly though now days I prefer Mozilla Firefox browser than IE still I use Spybot for adware and malware.Every time I tried to use NIS though it came free with my new PC my memory goes to hell and system slows down so I uninstaled it:banghead:.Please do this to NIS.:red:
Keith Warner
2007-04-08, 10:50
Do new DELLs still come with NortonCrap installed? If so, that alone would keep me from ever buying another Dell.
:mad:
Keith Warner
Dell is leaning more towards giving consumers a choice.
For many machines, one can choose to decline the security packages. Ditto for monitors.
Regards.
Keith Warner
2007-04-08, 11:21
That's good to hear. As an absolute noob when I got a Dell 1 1/2 years ago it came with all this "free" stuff. Later, when it had all expired and then un-installed, the only thing that left more baggage behind than Norton was AOL.
KW
NickFury
2007-04-15, 22:05
Dell is leaning more towards giving consumers a choice.
For many machines, one can choose to decline the security packages. Ditto for monitors.
Regards.
... and ditto for the OS it seems these days. you may note on many of their application restore cds included with the system, from even fairly old Dells, they have both Norton and McAfee options for anti-virus... I don't know how they came from the factory as one of them must have been originally installed.. perhaps the customer actually had the choice all this time, or maybe they needed to know that ahead of time and specify it when purchasing the computer...
As a technician all I hear from people (aside from pop-ups in the last 4-5 years) is speed speed speed. For that reason I always consider Norton, once a good product before Symantec purchased them like so many others, a PUP.
I make sure to stress the "Potentially" before "Unwanted Program" because it's a case of the cure being almost as bad, AS bad, or occasionally even WORSE than the problem.
It's not uncommon for someone to get their computer back clean from viruses and ad/spy/malware and then go buy Norton retail (usually because I inform them their old A/V was expired for years,) then call me back up wanting to know why their computer is slower than it was when they had the viruses! On occasion someone will bring the system back to me insisting it must still have viruses because it's so slow, and when I see they've bought the latest Norton Internet Security or worse, AND SystemWorks, the newer McAfee, etc. then I have the pleasure of attempting to explain why the "prevention" is often worse than the "problem." I actually had someone once who understood this concept right off, and decided he didn't care if his system only used for checking email and playing solitare was constantly sending DDOS attacks to other sites because it was faster with the virus than having anti-virus on his system.
But in all honesty detecting Norton as a PUP is sinking to their level and not a very good idea.
Now a great idea for Spybot and PUPs especially when their threat level is close to non-existent, is to have a section/popup/report devoted to "beyond malware: how to further speed up your computer and minimize the risk of problems" with recommendations on removing bulky and ineffective A/V such as Norton and replacing with something sleek and unobtrusive like F-Prot (or something more comprehensive yet doesn't slow the system down much, perhaps G-Data.)
It could also detect and recommend removing pointless system monitoring and registry utilities or things that never get used, such as with SystemWorks, or those "registry cleaners" that don't do any good and can sometimes damage a system, or MULTIPLE toolbars and pointless BHO's that aren't a threat but can slow down a browser or someday fail and crash one, or those programs that just add registry "tweaks" that may once have been used in Win2k or NT4 but are no longer relevant.
All of these programs aren't really PUPs because they may fully mean well, unlike your Weather apps and toolbars and the like that really are PUPs thanks to their "alternate" functionality, but regardless they are either a pointless waste, a false sense of security or functionality, or worse they could be pointless realtime apps that slow your system down and for no viable reason. Users should be informed of this, and potential side effects of these apps, and allowed the choice to continue using them or not.
Further, it could do the same for firewalls, perhaps with an advisory on why you can't connect to any internet site may be that the NIS firewall can sometimes go foobar after a malware infestation, despite it being removed and you triple checking the NIS config; (of course I've seen this issue with the bulky and slow McAfee and ZoneAlarm firewalls too) then a recommendation on a more comprehensive firewall that is much lighter on the system resources like Sygate, (doh, recently purchased by Symantec... hmm...) assuming that the client doesn't just want to stick with the XPSP2 outbound only firewall... it could even be suggested that an external firewall be purchased just to have all of the options laid out, informing them of the problems with software firewalls at the system level, putting the information in the hands of the consumer, not keeping blinding them from that information.
Maybe take it one step further and suggest that a 3rd party "Security Center" application may not be the best option, especially if you are no longer going to use that company's AV/Firewall products!
Problem is program installers like NIS bully the customer into using their security center and firewall and all that without really informing the customer of what is being done, and what is being replaced. They are all PUPs if you ask me, but Symantec definitely is the leader of the PUPs.
How about that new start page fix that hijacks your start page to a symantec site, then brags on how your start page must have been hijacked by malware (probably because it's not the one listed in the iesetup.inf or wherever) and asks you if you want to lock it on symantec! there's no "P" in the "UPs" there. that's just wrong! F U Symantec! Yeah, they mean well, but they go about everything all wrong.
Moving on...............
The REAL problem for Spybot is recommending 3rd party software, yet it MUST be done if you plan on telling users of the pitfalls of their current software. I try to avoid that as a technician, because:
A. you never know when you will offend someone because they've used that particular product for many years without issue or noticing how much better something decent is, and
2. the product(s) you do recommend may fail them at some point, as we all know happens across the board and more often than not, it has little to do with the product itself and more to do with a new threat, discovered exploit, or it's usually just user negligence or misinformation.
In either case, you may loose a user and supporter of your product because of it. Then you become a second rate app in the minds of many.
Anything more blatant like just detecting Symantec as a true PUP and you've sunken to Symantec's level, then you become a second rate app in the minds of many.
Perhaps worse, by "detecting" Symantec on a system in a nice way, while at the same time not recommending a good replacement application, you appear to be either careless with your users' systems/privacy/security, or you appear to be just another fraud pretending you know what you're doing; then you become that same second rate app in the minds of many.
Well, that's just my 2 U.S. cents. I'm not an optimist, that's for sure, but I believe reputations are difficult to maintain especially when you are the righteous. so take it for what you will...
EDIT: I forgot to mention I voted for "None of the above" ... really as I see it the only option is to inform the Symantec consumer of the situation (AND of the side effects of running Symantec products.) In this case, the truth shall set you free!
I still like the idea of the separate section for well-meaning PUPs and/or "how to improve your computer's speed and/or security" which could feature Symantec products (AMONGST OTHERS...)
...but detection and removal is out of the question, as is detection of harmless files with any option of removal because you may wake people up to your app being dishonest and second rate; it would only work if you detected Symantec and then gave the information to the consumer. Also legal action since it'll never stand against a company like Symantec on your budget (whatever that may be.)
JUST PLZ make sure to add a /nosymatecwarn parameter or .INI setting so it doesn't interfere with my automated scanning/removal scripts for Spybot! ;)
James White
2007-04-17, 22:34
i had norton system works and notorn internet security and i didnt keep either long system works was great but took up to many computer resources and internet security right after i installed it i got a virus infection i had a test done to see if my system was safe and it came up that the firewall didnt have much security i dont know how norton gets such a high raiting it really isnt that great
pigkeeper
2007-04-21, 03:49
In 90 minutes I went from positive to very negative feelings towards Norton and Symantec. I've been dealing with a major infection of several pieces of malware. Spybot has been invaluable in dealing with this, but I've been having persistant problems. New malware kept popping up on my system. I wanted to get a two-way firewall so that the junk on my system wouldn't communicate with the outside. I was afraid that it kept ordering new malware and could send personal information to bad people.
A company was recommended to me, but they were acquired by Symantec. What the hell, I thought, I'll just bite the bullet and get it. It has a double firewall.
I had just purchased Norton 360, but hadn't installed it, when I found this thread. Oh. My. God. No way am I giving up Spybot, and it sounds like there are other reasons NOT to use Symantec, not the least of which is that they are acting like big evil corporate pigs towards you guys.
Anyway, I filled out the form to get a return. They sent me a link to a Letter of Destruction, guaranteeing that I would kill the product I received, on pain of up to $100,000 in civil liability. Fine. I'm happy to delete it.
However, I pressed "Accept" and some extra buttons appeared. Weird stuff like "search" or something. It looked like a kindergartener had written the program.
The accept and decline buttons remained. I hit the accept button a second time. It disappeared.
I reloaded the form. Several times. It now ONLY has a DECLINE button. I guess it's possible that my accept went through. There's no evidence that it did.
I hope they answered my email, otherwise I'm gonna have to stop payment with my credit card. I guess.
I don't think I've ever had my opinion of a service provider have such a sharp reversal.
mrsarkar
2007-04-28, 15:19
I've hated Norton for the last couple of years since they total my computer with NIS 2005. I don't think much to Microsoft either because of all the dogey updates that have caused all kinds of trouble for me over the years. Although I thoughly dislike Norton, Adding ANY NIS products to the definitions list would be corporate suicide since Synmantec would sue you to death and your good name would be dragged through the dirt. I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can and eventually people will decide to ditch NIS and its system destroying "Issues" (e.g. wreaking Outlook Express 6 and causing it to crash Windows when you try to shutdown the computer) for the better product that is Spybot.
I agree.
nweissma
2007-04-28, 16:14
From March 2005 to December 2005, Symantec labeled Spybot-S&D as incompatible to Norton Ghost, and endangering backups, with no reason given to us in 19 months now. Since October 2005, Norton Internet Security has told users that Spybot-S&D would be incompatible and they had to remove Spybot-S&D.
Eleven months later, Symantec has given us just one explanation that was mostly invented and not fitting. Even though Symantec again promised changes, they have now released Norton Internet Security 2007 which again urges the user to uninstall Spybot-S&D.
We would have loved to work with them to remove any incompatibility, but although they were eager to tell their customers about these so-called 'incompatibilities', even threats of legal action could not persuade Symantec to give us any details. Well, actually they promised they would send us details, but those promises haven't been fullfilled for nearly a year. Is Symantecs Quality Assurance department so bad that they can't either find the old reports or re-test?
Both of us are members of the ASC, the Anti Spyware Coalition, a group of anti-spyware companies working together - in theory. The ASC has discussed Best Practices for half a year now. Sadly, this seems to only affect practices against malware creators, while coalition members are allowed to fight each other as much as they want.
If we created spyware instead of anti-spyware, we probably would laugh various body parts at seeing how one anti-spyware application removes the other.
Arbitration by the ASC has only resulted in broken promises by Symantec.
We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.
If you think that anti-spyware companies should fight spyware creators instead of each other, please send an email to ASC members of your choice, found here (http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/about/index.htm), and/or to the ASC itself, at asc@cdt.org.
Following that, thinking on how we could stop Symantec, we have two options: taking expensive legal steps, or behaving the same way as Symantec, accepting the removal of a competitor as a "legit" step.
Should we add detection for Norton Internet Security 2006 and 2007 as Malware or Possibly UnPopular Software (PUPS)?
* Yes, detect NIS completely!
* Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.
* No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.
* None of the above.
Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.
Please feel free to vote in this topic, and/or leave your comments, especially if you vote for option 4 (None of the above).
i think you're going overboard on this. Symantec does not act nobly because it is receiving terrible reviews in the forums: all of the gurus advocate against its use, for many reasons (my oem's configuration came with a 12 month subscription to norton 2007 antivirus - and i still ripped it out and replaced it because it is not vista compatible and was wreaking havoc with onecare and vista security center), while spybot is receiving rave reviews - my oem, eg, accolades you.
btw, install a spell check because i'm a terrible typist. and what do you coinsider a reasonable donation - keeping in kind that the powers-that-be keep me in poverty. when are you getting married to the most wonderful girl on earth?
gunners4eva
2007-05-17, 21:08
I've hated Norton for the last couple of years since they total my computer with NIS 2005. I don't think much to Microsoft either because of all the dogey updates that have caused all kinds of trouble for me over the years. Although I thoughly dislike Norton, Adding ANY NIS products to the definitions list would be corporate suicide since Synmantec would sue you to death and your good name would be dragged through the dirt. I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can and eventually people will decide to ditch NIS and its system destroying "Issues" (e.g. wreaking Outlook Express 6 and causing it to crash Windows when you try to shutdown the computer) for the better product that is Spybot.
I also agree with Terminator. Too much legal repercussions for detecting. However we could use the forum to "advise" members to try programs that don't kill their computer(s), such as zonealarm or avg's stuff. After all, by flagging safernetworking in their program Symantec are advising their users to delete spybot s&d. Tit for Tat.
Reported here:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4938c170-0587-11dc-b151-000b5df10621.html
Symantec is soooooo bad that their only hope is to drive everyone else out of the market.
Speaking of folk that just hire lawyers instead of write good code - I joined this form today because I am so upset with what I read about oska not wanting their product detected even if it was installed without the permission of the owner of the computer.
I put together a little letter to send to their support people
==========
RE: Trojans and or spyware installing your product.
Please be aware that unwanted software, especially on systems used by children, is a real problem. There are many ways to keep ones system clean and proper for children ages 6 to 14. Some of these are spyware detection and removal programs.
It would be to your companies advantage to co-operate with the vendors of such software instead of threatening them. There are very strict laws in the US and I believe England and Germany about children and off color material or material parents have not approved of being placed on children's computers. If it can be proven that your company has hampered detection of unauthorized installs of its software, it very well could leave your company open to the legal liability of this material being on the child's system without parental consent. I believe there are prison sentences in England and Germany for these things while in the US people just sue for millions of dollars.
===========
Perhaps others of you could email them something also
supportAToska.com
gayle
nOInfectIOn
2007-06-01, 10:02
--> http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=2897 <--
"Published: 2007-05-31,
Last Updated: 2007-05-31 19:09:25 UTC"
"We have received a couple of reports that Symantec Antivirus triggers on the file 'blindman.exe', part of the SpyBot Search & Destroy package. Apparently only the file included with version 1.3 was detected as a trojan, not the one included with the more recent version 1.4
Symantec has confirmed this issue occurred in the 05/30/2007 rev.020 Intelligence Update and LiveUpdate definitions. They've made available Rapid Release definition build 69173 (extended version 05/30/2007 rev. 035) to resolve the issue. LiveUpdate definitions that correct the issue were also published, version 90530ao (Sequence number: 69179; extended version 05/30/2007 rev.041)."
What a feeling... :D
Peter Pan
2007-06-01, 13:46
Hi,
sorry for my English, I'm a French guy but I'll do my best :)
Well, we are on a SB forum discussing about Symantec legitimacy and efficiency of its products. Perhaps Symantec forum do the same :/
I'm using Spybot S&D and Norton AV on my main PC and NIS on other computers and I never got all these problems people report. Perhaps I'm lucky. I also encoutered reliable and really skilled consultants who consider Symantec products are valuable for customers.
I recommend to my friend both of Spybot and Symantec products and I'll never encountered any problem after installation. I admit that Symantec products installation can be tricky and/or touchy but I always succeeded in installations working fine in the long term.
I also recommend users of Spybot products I install to donate ;) and they do as they are happy with their fine working installation.
Well, I hope Symantec will become wise and responsible to solve its incompatibility with Spybot S&D by improving its product rather than libelling Spybot.
I vote for doing anything else than quarelling with each other. But I have some doublt about this when I consider that this argument is open since a so long time (september 2006)
Best regards to all, whatever you think about :heart:Symantec products!
Lynn1102
2007-06-02, 01:27
I also run spybot and nortons on my system and have no problems with either. If you follow the instruction with both programs for installing, you have a good working machine.
On the above post, Norons did find and correct the problem in a timely manner. I have had occassion where both ad-aware and spybot found files during the scan that were not spyware. It took me at least 30 seconds to fix the problem, but some of you take 30 minutes to complain about it and write messages.
Any two similar programs of any type will sooner or later run into conflicts - there are just too many possibilities. How many of you have NEVER had your system freeze, lock up completely, or crash. If someone can prove to me that this is being done on purpose, I'll be first in line to clobber somone.
I'm not knocking anyone - I'm happy with all of them.
Lynn
I have to admit that I baled on NIS years ago in favor of Spybot, Spybot is such a good product, along with the other goodies like the file analyser and that. I baled on Microsoft not long ago - I switched to UBUNTU - very stable and very good. I hope that Spybot can craft some tools to work with linux, although I don't feel, (although I'm not absolutely sure) that I don't have much spyware on this computer at all (that is why I need a linux spybot to test!!) :-) I should try it with WINE - I'll post back here with results!!
If there are any spybot developers reading this, a linux version would be a good thing - it will take over Microsoft - resistance is futile, Microsoft will be assimilated! :-)
John
It works with WINE, but will only check the redundant files on my leftover windows NTFS-3G partition that I have yet to delete. but of course when I do that, SpybotSD will go with it (athough I still have it on numorous backups and that) I wonder if I copy it to /usr/bin/spybot it will work there??!!
:bigthumb:
I wrote an email to the organization itself, in which I strongly suggested that they either come together and satisfy their initial stated goals and objectives, or face being branded as another example of a "United Nations" sort of organization: All bark, and no bite...incapable of getting anything accomplished. In-fighting accomplishes nothing but malice, and is counter productive. For this reason, the "completely detect NIS" option wasn't one that I could consider. And options two and three are as "toothless" as the first.
What needs to happen is an honest meeting of their collective minds, and display the fortitude to follow their stated objectives. If that is deemed not possible, they should disband and reform...this time with the user public clearly in mind to receive the benefit.
Thanks for allowing me to vent.
joey45
Little late on this post, but I vote 1 or 2.
paranoid87
2007-06-11, 18:09
voted 1...
nOInfectIOn
2007-06-14, 21:44
@Spybot-Team:
Are you going to join "third Public Workshop June 27, 2007, at Harvard University Law School, in Cambridge, Massachusetts"?
Well, if: Please tell us from the behaviour of the big S :)!
thXinadV,nOI
nOInfectIOn
2007-06-15, 11:31
...Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description...
Okay, for the ASC, quite understood, Symantec - as a ASCmember - is producing SPYWARE... WOW!
On the Anti-Spyware Coalition Public Workshop, Symantec will moderate a prime-time event: "11:00 am - 12:00 pm Panel: Internationalization of Spyware; Moderator: Vincent Weafer - Symantec (confirmed)" ( http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/events/June2007Agenda.htm )
... --> That's asking for trouble!
http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/register/register-np.htm
0vermind
2007-06-15, 20:01
Here is my rant on Symantec....
First off I'd like to say good luck to anyone who even manages to get that crappy Norton installed. Cause when you try to install Symantec it crashes, then the computer locks up. Now you have a corrupted install if you don't and find out that you hate Norton cause of the 200MBs of memory and 20 processes it uses good luck trying to uninstall that worthless piece of junk. It will try to uninstall and it will corrupt the installer again if you get past that your computer no longer has internet because they shut it down (which is illegal) you have to call in Symantec to get your internet back. and I waited on hold for about an hour litterly before I hung up. On top of all that crap that it gives out it's soo freakin slow and doesn't detect any spyware and it's real-time protection doesn't work. I know that they make viruses too just so they can add them :yes:
And then they make false claims about Spybot SD i know that there is nothing wrong with Spybot SD I beta tested their NIS 2007 before it's release and it didn't say anything about Spybot SD they added it in later after the beta. Imagine that, what a bunch of sore losers!!!
Stay away from Symantec they are going down hill till they crash and I hope they do.
For godsakes and by all means put all symantec security softwares in adware list.I defenetly go with option 1.
Theire softwares(security ones like av,firewall or others) slows the system down.their services created by them wont get deleted after you uninstall the product and their firewall is just a bloat.
Please and i really mean PLEASE add them in the adware list especialy now that they done something like this to my no.1 anti-trojan/malware software, SpyBot :D
Keep up the good job guys and god bless ya.
nOInfectIOn
2007-07-10, 10:39
"June Public Workshop A Great Success
The Anti-Spyware Coalition's June Public Workshop was an educational and inspirational event for all that attended. Harvard University kindly recorded the entire day, they have put the results up on their website. The audio is available in RealAudio format, in three parts..."
--> lnXrhere: http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/index.htm
During 12 years I was pleased with the services provided by Symantec but once they "created" this problem against Spybot, I decided to refuse to have their products in my computer. I strongly suggest everyone not to install NIS 2007. Install Avast! 4.7 from ALWIL Software (free). It works so well as Symantec Norton Internet Security 2007. The best of all, Spybot reveals all problems NIS 2007 is not capable to recognize.
Good bytes to you all.
vote 1
I am using Spybot for 3 years now and it has always give me satisfaction (besides the tea timer bug solved with reshacker :)
I am waiting for 1.5 version
thank you very much to the team. You do great job
bye
After reading every post today i am all for option 1 again, i mean seriously i remember i forked out $100, hard to obtain dollars and i brought Norton Internet Security 2003 and i tried to install it brand new and it was corrupt and it wouldn't work and i opened it and couldn't get a refund. I lost $100 for no reason, i hate that memory.
They break all the pc's i have seen as a computer guy, techy.
And theya re spyware, put them in the list.
The things is with all this is, does Sys have an ulterior motive and will make an offer for Spybot that can't be refused??
Thank you everyone for your great feedback and individual experiences! :bigthumb:
This topic is now closed.