Either Safer Networking Ltd. or Symantec leaving the Anti Spyware Coalition...

Should we follow ASCs definitions of Spyware/PUPS and add NIS to the detections?

  • Yes, detect NIS completely!

    Votes: 222 67.3%
  • Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.

    Votes: 26 7.9%
  • No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.

    Votes: 8 2.4%
  • None of the above.

    Votes: 74 22.4%

  • Total voters
    330
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I'm no big fan of Symantec. Was a contented user around 2001 / 2003, and ditched them in 2004. But, when I was using both their "internet security" and Spybot, Spybot's system startup list descriptions used to list some Symantec programs as malware instead of the genuine thing. (It's been a while, and I don't remember exactly what Spybot said about which program).

I'm sure the computers involved weren't infected and the files Spybot complained about were legit, so I can't blame Symantec for being a bit ticked-off.

Also, after I upgraded to their 2004 version it kept getting corrupted and forcing me to re-install. Changed to another company without ever tracking down what caused it, but I could never get rid of the faint suspicion that maybe my overnite scheduled Spybot scans were nuking something they shouldn't.


I registered just to respond to Lord Cobol. Sir, did it ever occur to you, that Spybot S&D was telling you that something had perhaps infected your Norton's product, and during it's cleaning, yes, it's possible that in order to get rid of the infection, it had to get rid of some infected files in that particular folder. HOWEVER, Spybot S&D DOES NOT delete anything unless YOU THE USER tell it to. It also makes a quarentine of the files and you can..or could have, restored them if needed...

Norton products are so easily targeted by so many viruses and other unwanted and infectious things out on the net, that their products usually don't even detect them and continue to "work" as if nothing is wrong with them. You would do well to just uninstall any Symantec products you have now, then to wait until they become infected and then blame another program when it tries to clean them up...

Now, back to the topic at hand, I say detect any and all Symantec products, and recommend to the user that they should, if they want to keep their computer safe, uninstall the Symantec product(s).
 
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Symantec Antics

Been in the IT game since '79 and have used and recommended Norton and then Symantec as it became for many years.

But now it's gone the way of MS and a few others I won't mention.

Suits with the $$$ signs, taking advantage and the mickey while they are at it.

Me, abandon the big corporation attitudes. It's a fast moving game and there are many out there who have heart and spirit before the $$$.

So say bye bye to symantec antics and move on.

The Linux OpenSource community is growing all the time.

Don't take life too seriously, nobody get out of it alive :angel:
 
I too have been working on Computers for a long time... since DOS 3.1. McAfee Antivirus started as a free download very similar to Spybot. (Actually Shareware spread around on BBS Systems.) It provided no protection, only detection and removal. Then it changed hands and fell apart. NAV became the only real choice. But then the same thing happened to Norton, it sold, and fell apart. Only it's demise is more about greed, and shabby code writing only fixed by unnecessary "upgrades." People need to revolt again with their wallets! Another free Antivirus for home use is Avira, at www.free-av.com. And they still support Win98! (NAV doesn't.) Judging from the responses to this thread, there is a broad following. However this being so deep in the thread I doubt it will be seen by many. However, USE YOUR POWER.

Both my and my wifes parents have Investment Stock Portfolios. I am often asked about good/bad tech stock suggestions. About 6 months ago, I insisted they sell all Symantec Stock. Stockholders also have rights. Even if it's part of a Retirement portfolio. Spread the word. Sell Symantec Stock. Tell your 401K or IRA Administrator you do not want any Symantec Stock. If you can't or won't sell, send a shareholder letter to the Symantec board.

Pepi, I hear your fustration. They are not playing fair. But anything retaliatory, and you've stooped to their level.
 
Said goodbye a long time ago

My first Pc came with norton (about 9 years ago).
Even though it was updated regularly I still got infected. I didn't have any trouble uninstalling it ........ I had to reformat !!!!!!!!!!!!
So I searched around and found a whole host of freeware that does a great job.
Like many of your members probably use, I have
Ad Aware
Spyblaster
Spyware Guard
Easy Cleaner
SpyWare Doctor (free edition)
AND of course S&D

I must admit to still using McAfee for anti virus but hey i've had clean Pc's for a long time now so why change a good thing !!!

PS. I am setting up my brother-in-law's Pc next week, I have already put S&D on flash drive to take with me.

Keep up the great work
 
One more thing.... The Suits at Symantec are not listening to the Support Techs in Pakistan and India who hear our complaints.
 
Pepi, I want you to know I felt so strongly about this that I registered just to post in this thread.

I wrote an e-mail to the ASC today suggesting they revoke Symantec's membership. Here's the message:

As a former user of Symantec products, I find their actions towards Spybat S & D contemptible. I've read the journal blog posted here by the author:
http://safer-networking.org/en/news/2006-09-29.html

The corporate suits at Symantec should all be fired and burn in hell for their greed. What good reason do they have to take a dependable member like Spybot and bad mouth it? When I used Norton AV from 1998- 2004, I never once ran into any "compatibility issues" with Spybot S & D.

By claiming Spybot is somehow incompatible with their software, Symantec only adds to the confusion for computer novices. If I had never educated myself about computers, I would be confused and might even be tempted to remove Spybot as Symantec suggests. Is that the kind of members you allow into your coalition? One that spreads myths & lies? One that creates confusion for computer users in order to achieve market share?

I suggest if Symantec wants to fight dirty, think about the image in the mirror and consider the possible outcomes. At the risk of tarnishing their reputation, they need to correct their behavior now. If they had any modicum of professionalism and honesty about this, they would have corrected their error immediately and apologized to Spybot. The fact they've done exactly the opposite is a slap in the face to Spybot and to the ASC community.

I strongly urge you to REVOKE Symantec's membership into your community.

Chewy.
=======================================

Pepi, keep up the great work you're doing. :) I have a side business fixing computers and I recommend your software to all of my customers.
 
Den allgemeinen Feststellungen das NIS den Computer performancetechnisch in die Knie zwingt kann ich micht nur anschliessen.
Die Bedienung der Norton Security Suite ist grausam unergonomisch.
Layout und Design der Norton Suite offenbaren Lustlosigkeit am Design.
(Schlimm ist in der Tat, das man so einige Winkelzüge braucht, um den Mist komplett wieder vom Rechner runter zu bekommen.)

Ich kam eigentlich nur in die Verlegenheit das Norton-Teil mal als Demo zu installieren, weil meine einstmals gekaufte ZA-Firewall nicht mehr ganz auf dem neues Stand war (nicht die Freeware-Version eben) und ich mal über den Tellerrand gucken wollte.
Grausam enttäuscht wurde ich.
Wenn ich jetzt noch lese, das Symmantec euer gutes Produkt "abschiessen" will, kommt mir schlicht die Galle hoch.
Da kann ich doch nur den etwa 1000 Kunden die unsere Firma betreut sagen:
Trennt euch so rasch wie möglich von dem Norton-Unfug.

Da bleibe ich lieber weiter bei meiner Kombination aus ZoneAlarm und SpyBot.
Weiter so Leute, lasst euch nicht unterbuttern.

;)
 
Great product Spybot the best...

i am so happy with the spybot, i really love it, other antivirus didnt detect the spyware that i had, exepct this one, i really want to say thank u to u all
for this product, and i think symantec should consider working with this products, cause it detects even spyware that norton didnt detect on my computer...............
 
I've had a problem with the Symantec AntiVirus Corporate that we use at work where AntiSpyware and AntiVirus would detect the same malware and both try to quarantine them (or temporarily lock file access to it) at the same time so neither one could delete the threat. I just can't remember whether that AntiSpyware was Microsoft's Defender or Spybot S&D. But in disgust I uninstalled AntiSpyware and haven't gone back until recently I decided to give Spybot S&D another shot... again until I read this article and realise some things will never change...
 
Tech Support + Spybot

At Alorica(tech support for the horrible Gateway and eMachines computers) we were told to tell people to search google for a spyware removal tool. Well, few people listened. Even I recommended Spybot S&D(that was 2-3 years ago). But still, the techies(my sister and a few others that worked there tell me the details of some stuff) recommend Spybot(and usually are against Norton and recommend AVG/Avast for viruses).

The computer illiterate people that call in and hear the "experts" advising spybot and AVG/avast(free editions of course) tell their friends and family when it works, and the fact that it doesnt cost a thing, and is easy to install(and uninstall) spread the word faster than Norton spreads that it should be uninstalled.
 
Norton was pretty cool back in the day, when MSDOS 5 was still new. Norton Utilities was a staple for any serious computer user.

Since then, they've taken a serious toboggan ride downhill.

So I say definitely have Spybot completely remove NIS!
 
I can relate to everyone concerned...

I'd agree. In relative comparison, safer-networking doesn't have the financial capital to hold a full fledged political battle with Symantec. I personally wouldn't want them to waste the time. The only real advantage Symantec has over safer-networking, Grisoft, Lavasoft, Zonealarm really comes down to financial capital. They all have the better software, as we all know, but the one thing they don't have is the financial capital to advertise. Online is great, but not until you start to see big spreads in most mags, will you see or hear anything about these products.

Look, I talk from experience. My dad was in the computer business in the early 90's, he was doing the Dell thing at, around, or slightly before Mr. Dell dominated the market completely. (If you must know, his partners' gave him the shaft) but here's the facts. You can be told by 10,000 mags that talk about computers that safer-networking is better, but, people, that doesn't help the donation department or advertizing market to all those people, who, for better or worse make up 80-90% of the market, and most of those people, know nothing about, security protection, or which product is better. Do you honestly think PC Mag really sells to my mom? NO. She doesn't go buying PC mags. I do. I buy Maximum PC which is where I first learned about Spybot and AVG, and what not. That and the now defunct Tech TV. Facts are, people just don't in a large majority know which product is better, and when they go to the store, as all do, because freeware/shareware is to be perfectly honest, a tech/geek/nerd thing. You have to be a little Geeky to know what they are. The average person if you asked them what spybot is will look at you funny. I know, I explain to countless college students what SpywareBlaster/Spybot Search and Destroy/AVG/Ad-Aware are. Most still don't know about updating windows, or heck...the most basic of things. If you really want to get people to learn, it's going to come down to this. When this country get's it's head, slightly out of it's butt, and they realize all students need to be required to take computer classes, then will it be that you can send the ten thousand reasons why these products are better. Because until you are able to have full page ads, or tv spots during the superbowl, or what not, these products will never become well known.

Ok. if someone wants an Idea I've got one. Since most people don't know what any of these things are, someone needs to create an ad for several superbowl type events, talking about freeware/shareware/where to look for the best products, why it's important, so on and so forth. Get the understanding freeware exists, and security is increadibly important. For example, why is Mcafee getting more well known? It's new deal with Comcast and Comcast High Speed internet. The facts are, you need to have widespread coverage of your audience, because for the same reason Microsoft will never be defeated by Apple, because Microsoft owns 90% of the market, and people just don't want to switch, don't know very much, and unless you shove it in their faces at superbowl sunday, never will care to learn.

I'd say this, get the entire nerd/geek/computer/gaming/tech/hacker/cracker/opensource/everything computer releated together, get them to cough up the donation money to talk about opensource/freeware/shareware in a massive way, via a massive ad program, and the thing you will see is, people will know. Do you think people like to pay Symantec 100's of dollars a year for a product they don't even know works? NO! I would never pay for something I didn't need to pay for, legally speaking. If I could get a product that way better, that did more, that took up less system resources, and was absolutly free, do you honestly think I would pay for something that was a piece of crap and messed up my computer? No...not one bit. If you make the case big enough about freeware/shareware/opensource you will create a tsunami of interest in the GLOBAL populus. In the areas it counts. So why don't you guys go set up a donation page for support opensource/freeware/shareware/etc. and the general things Symantec doesn't fix, repair,cover get all those rich nerds interested in a good cause, and with a little kick in the butt form the base, we can kick this thing off in a way that will really make an impact. Sorry for no other ideas, but that's the only way they are going to be wide known in the next 10 years to the regular pop. People just don't know, and often are too confused to care.

-Chris
 
I'm not pleased with Norton

I used the norton trial software on my new computer (2007).
After installing, my computer ran "funny" in the best of terms.
Everytime I shut down I had to close a nonresponsive program related to Norton. I would have written it down to post here, but I did not think of doing so.

I traced my problems back to norton and I decided to uninstall it.

I went to uninstall programs and tried to uninstall Norton. It wouldn't uninstall!

After hours of headache I downloaded an uninstaller from the Norton website.

It did not uninstall completely as I tried to install the original Half Life game and an error box sprang up showing the root of the problem in a symintech (spelling) folder.

I'm not all that terriffic with computers, so fixing problems like this take a lot of time for me.

I'm thinking of using my recovery cds and starting all over. I'm very frustrated.

Has anyone noticed spybot running very slow after installing Norton?

I'm not sure if it is actually running slow, or my imagination.

I used other antivirus software with good results.

I have NEVER had problems with them like I did with Norton.
 
We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.

Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.

I will be very interested to see the result of the motion to expel Symantec. How ironic Symantec is appealing Microsoft's latest bullying with security in Vista, but has no compunctions about doing the same to smaller competitors of its own.

I voted * Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.

Dan
I use and recommend Spybot, SpywareBlaster, Ad-Aware, and AVG
I personally use Norton AV 2004 Professional, but at the first hint of problems, or upon expiration in May '07, will remove it or let it expire. I am hearing of many bad experiences related to the Symantec 2007 product line.

I think it is very telling the number of people who registered on this forum in response to this thread. Reaction to Symantec questionable policies and products is eliciting a strong response!
 
I just did a complete un-install of Symantec Norton Internet Security 2006 & Norton System Works 2006, I was constantly getting a ccApp.exe error with it from about a week after purchasing it. Seems like after 2005, Symantec products went to the popper. And every time I went to get Technical Help at Symantec they would refer me to the tool they have on there site that supposedly un-installs it then you are to reinstall both products again after running the "fix tool". They claim it was a common file error, that was why I was getting the ccApp.exe error. After doing this fix many times since I had bought both products I finally decided that I wanted to remove it completely and get a refund on the products seeing as I spent over $100.00 buying both. They refused to refund my money saying that it had to be a common file error in my computer from other programs installed, when I looked at all the files that both programs installs I found out that both Symantec products install the ccApp.exe file into all common folders in Microsoft Windows XP, so it was not my computer, it is there software! And be fair warned anyone that uses that so called "removal tool" it does NOT remove all the files in your computer nor the registry, after trying for days endlessly to remove the remaining files, I finally gave up and did a complete restore. Using the old fashioned way (I will never use restore disks that come with computers) MS DOS floppy disk (using fdisk.exe), erasing everything from the hard drive, then reinstalling Microsoft Windows XP from scratch. I was trying to prevent having to do this because my computer I use for business, I lost two days work over all of this, is Symantec going to pay my wages? I don't think so. But its a lesson learned, I will never use any Symantec product again, and I have been using Spybot Search & Destroy for many years now plus other applications, and found that very few other programs come near to catching what Spybot Search & Destroy does. I wouldn't recommend fighting Symantec like others have suggested, my idea would be keep creating and upgrading Spybot Search & Destroy, its not worth the aggravation or money for them to just drag you through court for years on end, because as we all know that is what big companies do, because they have the funding to do such a thing. When anyone asks me what product to use to catch spy ware I always recommend Spybot Search & Destroy, and as far as I am concerned I will never recommend any Symantec product again, like I said lesson learned, granted the hard way, but still learned. And I am truly sorry for such a long post after me just joining tonight, but I did not want to pass the chance up to tell others that your best to just do a complete format, Symantec products act like a virus in your computer, it never wants to leave and will stay as long as you let it, thank you for reading.:greeting:
 
Yes please...

I've been an IT professional for 25 years. Norton Utilities was an indispensable box of tricks in its early days (first released about 1982 if memory serves). But since a couple of years after Symantic took over, I put "don't install any of norton" at the top of the list if friends or family ask my advice, or "I'll (try) to remove it" if they are unlucky to enough to find the thing pre-installed. I was hesitant to say the same to clients - even colleagues were a little incredulous I was anti such an 'established' company. Maybe there are good bits, but to my mind if they get it so wrong for so long in the areas I've seen problems, then the whole box goes in the bin.

I'm please to see you guys making a stand, and it doesn't surprise they don't play fair with fellow members of the ASC. I'll continue saying to anyone who asks that Norton causes more problems than it claims to solve, and continue telling any company I buy or source PCs from, that I'll not buy them if they come installed with such rubbish.

p.s.
Spybot is brilliant (thought I should say something positive :))
 
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Removal

After reading DarkTearz on the difficulty of removing Norton - I am discouraged.
I really do not want to reformat. Here is an item from the Washington Post that additionaly points to Symantec problems:

Washington Post Nov. 3, 2006 page D5
"Symantec Sued Over Anti-Virus Renewals

Customers of Symantec sued the security-software company, claiming that it cheated them when they renewed subscriptions for such programs as Norton AntiVirus.

The company pressures users to renew with "pop-up" notices, according to a complaint filed in a California state court. For those who renew, subscription terms are based on the renewal date, rather than the original date of expiration, depriving users of service they paid for, the lawsuit says.

Symantec had no comment."

Frank C
 
This isn't sticking up for or bashing anyone, just a comment. In working with computers for over 20 years, I don't think I've ever un-installed anything from a windows machine where everything was gone. Matter of fact, most programs will give you a message that not all files were deleted, and suggest you delete them yourself. When I find a better program that what I have, I un-install the old one and almost every time I have to do extra work, not much, to delete the rest of the files. Occasionally I will have to go into the registry to locate and change or delete setting for the program.
I do use Nortons anti-virus, but not NIS - I don't feel I need it for what I do. My windows firewall works fine for me. I have installed NIS on other peoples computers and got tired of trying to figure what to use and what to deny - everyone has their own list.
Actually I just started using this version of Spybot and had more trouble with it. It wouldn't let me install any updates, even windows updates. The use/deny buttons are scrambled and I can't use them. I had problems getting my own work done cause spybot kept popping up to tell me it denied something else. I have for the monent, disabled Spybot and wil run it when I feel it's necessary. What it does it does well, maybe too well.

Lynn
 
how about ClamWin

While looking for alternatives, I came across a program called ClamWin antivirus. It looks like a free, open-source program but the version number (0.88.5) suggests to me that it might not be completely ready yet. Anybody have any experience with this one?

Also, how about firewalls? What're some good alternatives there?

I was just starting to install my new NIS2007 when I saw the message about spybot... a little research brought me this wealth of info & now i'm really considering asking for my money back. the icing on the cake was more than half the user agreement being for yahoo toolbar that they want you to install <.<; talk about unprofessional...
 
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