Either Safer Networking Ltd. or Symantec leaving the Anti Spyware Coalition...
From March 2005 to December 2005, Symantec labeled Spybot-S&D as incompatible to Norton Ghost, and endangering backups, with no reason given to us in 19 months now. Since October 2005, Norton Internet Security has told users that Spybot-S&D would be incompatible and they had to remove Spybot-S&D.
Eleven months later, Symantec has given us just one explanation that was mostly invented and not fitting. Even though Symantec again promised changes, they have now released Norton Internet Security 2007 which again urges the user to uninstall Spybot-S&D.
We would have loved to work with them to remove any incompatibility, but although they were eager to tell their customers about these so-called 'incompatibilities', even threats of legal action could not persuade Symantec to give us any details. Well, actually they promised they would send us details, but those promises haven't been fullfilled for nearly a year. Is Symantecs Quality Assurance department so bad that they can't either find the old reports or re-test?
Both of us are members of the ASC, the Anti Spyware Coalition, a group of anti-spyware companies working together - in theory. The ASC has discussed Best Practices for half a year now. Sadly, this seems to only affect practices against malware creators, while coalition members are allowed to fight each other as much as they want.
If we created spyware instead of anti-spyware, we probably would laugh various body parts at seeing how one anti-spyware application removes the other.
Arbitration by the ASC has only resulted in broken promises by Symantec.
We will therefore bring a motion in front of the ASC to expel Symantec for damaging the ASC through its practices of illegal improper competition and libel, resulting even in malware creators being able to spread their malware better. Should this motion be rejected by a majority of ASC members, we most likely leave this coalition as it would then appear that ASC is favoring libel as a proper way of competition.
If you think that anti-spyware companies should fight spyware creators instead of each other, please send an email to ASC members of your choice, found here, and/or to the ASC itself, at asc@cdt.org.
Following that, thinking on how we could stop Symantec, we have two options: taking expensive legal steps, or behaving the same way as Symantec, accepting the removal of a competitor as a "legit" step.
Should we add detection for Norton Internet Security 2006 and 2007 as Malware or Possibly UnPopular Software (PUPS)?
* Yes, detect NIS completely!
* Yes, but detect only some harmless files to wake up people.
* No, please waste our donations to go through legal channels, instead of using them to fight malware.
* None of the above.
Please note that under ASCs definition, technology that is implemented in ways that impairs user control over material changes that affecs their system security, in other words software that urges changes that reduce system security like NIS does, falls under the term Spyware (and Other Potentially Unwanted Technologies), so adding NIS to the detection would not be revenge, but a strict following of the ASC definitions of that malware description.
Please feel free to vote in this topic, and/or leave your comments, especially if you vote for option 4 (None of the above).
Why I hate Norton and Microsoft
I've hated Norton for the last couple of years since they total my computer with NIS 2005. I don't think much to Microsoft either because of all the dogey updates that have caused all kinds of trouble for me over the years. Although I thoughly dislike Norton, Adding ANY NIS products to the definitions list would be corporate suicide since Synmantec would sue you to death and your good name would be dragged through the dirt. I personally belive the best way to go about this unfortunate mess is to just keep delveloping Spybot and getting it as good as you can and eventually people will decide to ditch NIS and its system destroying "Issues" (e.g. wreaking Outlook Express 6 and causing it to crash Windows when you try to shutdown the computer) for the better product that is Spybot.
Full Support Safer Netwoking.
I have just voted in the poll to "Detect NIS completely".
I recommended and installed Norton Internet Security 2005 for several people, and bought it myself, after reading a review of security tools which praised it.
I found it intrusive and irritating. The number of pop-up's it generated while I was on-line, and particularly when filling in forms, made it unusable if you wanted to get anything done.
I ended up phoning Symantec and asking for my money back. I found they had a web page specifically for disgruntled customers to claim a refund. I think that says a lot. I was left embarrassed at having recommended it.
In comparison I have found Spybot S & D excellent. I think Symantec's non-cooperation with Safer Networking is deplorable. Safer Networking are addressing a serious problem by providing free security software (that works) to the home user, the user often with little or no knowledge of security issues and the most vunerable.
The way I see this is, we have a vendor of a commercial and in my opinion poorer tool, one I personally felt would put people off bothering with online security for life, damaging the reputation of a a tool that I feel is far superior as part of a self-selected security suite. A tool which also encourages security by being supplied free for download to home users, for which I think Safer Networking deserve praise.
(If Symantec ever read this, I'd love you to post a reply and convince me my personal opinions are wrong in the paragraph above, and give reasons why Norton Internet Security 200X should be considered better than a combination of Windows XP's own Restore plus ZoneLabs, Grisoft, Safer Networking and Lavasoft products.)
You have my full support Safer Networking.
No problem with NIS/Spybot so far
I have been reading these posts with curiosity. I use NIS 2006 since almost a year, I use Spybot S&D for some years and I use Norton System Works since 2000 (now NSW 2006). I have never had the problems you mentioned above, i.e. Symantec advising me to uninstall Spybot S&D.
I was planning to upgrade to version 2007 of NIS but you all make me doubt.
Is there a big difference with NIS 2006? And how about NSW? Please advise.
Thank you for any reply.
Symantec vs. Safer Networking? No contest.
I had to register just to say that after using Spybot S&D for over three years, and Norton AV for less than one, my opinion oughta be plain.
S&D now runs on three of my computers, Symantec on none.
[And, yes, I run Ashampoo Firewall (free), NOD32, Anti-Vir (now Avira), or AVG, along with Spyware Blaster, Spyware Guard, A-Squared Free and a few other utilities.]
I did write a note to Center for Democracy and Technology.
Good luck, Patrick.