You Cyber, We Sue

[GATOR]

YOU CYBER, WE SUE


Hello to all

I would like to learn about spyware, and yes, I'm one of those people, an ATTORNEY.

so that there is no misunderstanding. i am totally new to this area of law, and extremely ignorant of any understanding of computers. the extent of my knowledge is to be able to turn on the computer.

i just spent 10 minutes trying to fiqure out how to put a gator avatar on my posts and gave up, so please help.

i suspect after a decade on this board i may learn something.

but not to mislead you, my intent is to learn what people and companies are doing bad stuff, so i can SUE EM!





first topic: i want to learn about freeware aka free spyware, and gpl's


CASE SCENARIO........ owns the copyrights to software but wants to allow it's use to all for free

issue 1: when you download the free software, is that all that is being downloaded or are there additional presents being added........you guys call it bundling software, so they have a present with the free software

how do you know if is not a , but added a to your software and is actually a


PART 1..........GO TO PART 2

[GATOR]

issue 2; there are a bunch of that want to use software for $$$.

said that was to use sofTware BUT NOT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, and said

but then downloaded the free software, set up a their own website and then made $$$ and laughed all the way to the bank

what does do?

[GATOR]

so there are attorneys that are the but the GATOR, AKA THE in a certain drug class action involving 6 million people!, is really a nice guy



so was reading http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/categories.html and looked like

spybot search and destroy...........gives away free software......what is it?
``Free software''
``Open source''
``Public domain software''
``Copylefted software''
``Non-copylefted free software''
``GPL-covered software''
``The GNU system''
``GNU programs''
``GNU software''
``Non-free software''
``Semi-free software''
``Proprietary software''
``Shareware''
``Freeware''
``Private (custom) software''
``Commercial software''

if i want to critique.....edelman's valentine day massacre article @
http://www.benedelman.org/news/021408-1.html

....Critiquing C-NetMedia's Anti-Spyware Offerings and Advertising Practices

and help

the GATOR needs help

or pm the gator ..............all in confidence

[PepiMK]

Difficult to read anything between all those colorfulsmileys
"first topic": you probably meant "free anti-spyware"?

"issue 1": depends on the type of bundled software - "legal" bundled software requires the installing application to inform the user during the installation process. that's why it is so important to read those twenty page long terms of service shown at the beginning of most installations that no one reads.
Reading the comments for a software download and various of the bigger software download platforms (BetaNews, Download.com, various computer magazine online portals) is always a good start to read a few comments of other users.

"issue 2": in that case, informing the hoster of said website usually helps quite fast. Trademark issues (copycats advertising rogues with misleading names) are much more trouble than those, but you've read that in the article from Ben Edelman already. Takes ages to get down to finding out the site owners, since they use anonymization services, ages to do all the legal paperwork, tracking their moves to various addresses, etc., but we're still on their tracks

Spybot-S&D's license? That is probably a "custom one", some propriatary, with touches of, but not qualifying fully as, "open source" and "semi-free".
FSFs descriptions are of course all quite biased, which is not a bad thing in itself, but those categories are not legal facts, just rough drawers.

[GATOR]

Pepimk......thanks for responding and coming over to my room.i can call it that right.to have a chat......

i hate to miss stuff so let me copy....separate and dissect. of course your stuff will be between the {...}...........this whole area is like a new language!.


{"Difficult to read anything between all those colorfulsmileys" }..... hopefully we can draw people to this room..........i expect it will be the most colorful......real quick......they general get that way when you talk about lawsuits................$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...but usually computer grads-engineers.thow in a few lawyers and the room gets stuffy......not with me.....................so we also have to have fun!


{"first topic": you probably meant "free anti-spyware"?} .thanks.....i have no trouble lowering my defense to show my stupidity....so teach me dude!

we should coin the term............."free spyware".......i noted software.....but your right on the anti spyware............but i guess the problem is that some companies bundle...

FREE ANTI-SPYWARE BUNDLED WITH FREE SPYWARE....COME AND GET IT!....



{"issue 1": depends on the type of bundled software - "legal" bundled software requires the installing application to inform the user during the installation process. that's why it is so important to read those twenty page long terms of service shown at the beginning of most installations that no one reads.
Reading the comments for a software download and various of the bigger software download platforms (BetaNews, Download.com, various computer magazine online portals) is always a good start to read a few comments of other users.}

BUT............'LEGAL" bundled software would probably not be the way to do it...how does it work?

free anti spyware is marketed.........person agrees to download......dont they just see the 1 type of product.......you push button.sit back.play on something..maybe even watch but..........

you dont know what is being downloaded........unless its people like you..with your packet sniffer things!..

so you are downloading product 1........and it's legal notice consent blah blah.but attached to it are 20 separate products..........that you never agreed to......never consent to............and its coming to the party too.right!



{"issue 2": in that case, informing the hoster of said website usually helps quite fast.}.............ya but then they are kicked off and in seconds.on another

im surprised that the spyware guys...... dont have multiple hosters.......so they wont be totally out of action if they get kicked off.......rotate multiple web domains on multiple hosters


{Trademark issues (copycats advertising rogues with misleading names) are much more trouble than those, but you've read that in the article from Ben Edelman already. Takes ages to get down to finding out the site owners, since they use anonymization services, ages to do all the legal paperwork, tracking their moves to various addresses, etc., but we're still on their tracks }


CANT AGREE.....cyber crime is easyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...it aint like solving a real crime...or proving up accident and death cases after the fact...............cyber footprints every where.............and tons of lawsssssssssssssss.......$$$$$$$$$$.........but it's new area of law for attorneys

there have been lawyers doing trademarks.copyright.contracts.etc.......and even doing the disputes..........

but the $$$$$$ that laws award!...........if i could mix a computer guru......with a privacy/computer law prof's guru.and a class action litigator..........all on the same team.

but it seems like this area has been untouched by aggressive attys found in class actions...........

law profs want to sell a blog....get a print in a newspaper .write a book........blah blah............helps with tenure......

if class action attys see money in this biz of policing spyware

{Spybot-S&D's license? That is probably a "custom one", some propriatary, with touches of, but not qualifying fully as, "open source" and "semi-free".
FSFs descriptions are of course all quite biased, which is not a bad thing in itself, but those categories are not legal facts, just rough drawers.}

cant respond.need to go back onto that other site to review.i need to go down list to examine each..
__________________

issues of day:.................bundling spyware with anti spyware?
....................................custom license?.....open source?......

im lost..........but greatttttttttt start.thanks..

[GATOR]

issues: "legal" bundled software requires the installing application to inform the user during the installation process............

user wants only 1 program...user gives consent to download that 1 software
while the downloading starts................the bundled software that was not authorized is downloaded..

thats how easy it is .right?

99% of users never know ............right?

[GATOR]

...........http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/categories.html

[YoKenny]

Its really funny that Gator was one of the first spyware applications that came out

http://www.pchell.com/support/gator.shtml

[GATOR]

but............it will work well for marketing

there are good gators and bad gators!

[bitman]

Problem is, the really bad stuff comes from other countries now, even if the creators might be based in the US. This leads to issues of international law and enforcement, which are creating huge issues for governments, let alone the individuals attacked.

The FTC has done enough here in the US to scare even most slightly reputable marketing organizations into relatively decent behaviour. Those foolish enough to attempt such a thing domestically at this point would be an easy target for FTC action.

The instant any significant reputable organization attempts such a move they are quickly involved in such bad press that they are forced to correct the situation themselves, or face the destruction of their hard won reputation. The low-hanging fruit for class action would have potentially been available a few years ago, but now it's not really a concern.

The remaining issues are more something that governments will have to resolve. The courts as a whole move too slowly to effect any useful short term solution. The primary issue is the generally unrecognized fact that by using our personal freedom to communicate without government monitoring on an international stage (the Internet), we also effectively remove any protection that might afford, resulting in the requirement to protect our own 'borders' (PC network) from international criminal activity.

Bitman