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Thread: TeaTimer CPU load after startup thoughts

  1. #11
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    Default Fully agree with Zero voltage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zer0 Voltage View Post
    @wyrmrider: Perhaps you should fully familiarize yourself with the problem reports and history before making any assumptions. This is a case of obvious abnormalities, not a need for trade-offs or alternatives and most certainly not some baloney case of TeaTimer doing its normal job. This is a case of TT needing a fix for a real and verifiable problem..........................................

    ...............
    I am somewhat skeptical that this will come down to "normal" behavior, however, since on nearly identical systems with the same software and configuration different levels of the problem can occur - plus, like I said, the problem didn't occur with the betas.

    FYI, when TT does do something it is supposed to do, it does not spike - even on affected systems. It has a brief but normal resource increase, but that's it. I can only make a permanent spike [at will] by fully exiting and then later restarting it (at least on some systems). Further FYI, I have no TEMP files (auto-scrubbers in place) and usually <40 processes running. So anything TT does should be unnoticeable and instant (which truly normal "doing its job" TT behavior is).

    Anyway, thanks very much for continuing to look into this PepiMK. If you need me to help test anything or provide any other details, please just let me know. I may not be available much now though.

    Sorry if I posted any redundant info here, but evidently while I was away some people decided to start multiple separate threads for the same related issue...
    It is absolutely clear that there is some terrible bug with TT that makes it spike the CPU.As Zero voltage suggests any normal working need not consume that resource.I hope the spybot team quickly put their heads into action and correct it or the reputation of the software will get affected.In fact I was among the first who posted a thread on the CPU spike but a pity no proper response from the forum.I have for the moment uninstalled Spybot ,and watching for the correction.

  2. #12
    Member of Team Spybot PepiMK's Avatar
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    Please, try to keep two things separated

    1. A long time for scanning each process. For this, see the discussion about SDFiles.exe before the 1.6 release. That is a trade-off between reducing the time for loading the database to a third (and using only a quarter of memory speaking of resources) while the time for scanning each file has about doubled, which, for single files, is still an improvement.
    That is not a bug, just but a discussable shift of preferences.

    2. If TeaTimer never recovers as Zer0 Voltage described, that is a bug.

    @129260: a Windows standard notification balloon is indeed what I tried this morning While the advantage here is that it is a system standard, it's downside is that the time it is shown has to be specified before showing it; hiding it when the file scanning has finished is not possible right now, so the timeout the balloon will have has to be guessed.

    @Zer0 Voltage: the change at RC 2 was the shifting between database loading and scanning time.
    I think I'll make that toggleable by a registry tweak to allow easier testing of both methods.

    @md usa spybot fan: a proper binary lookup only works with a clear set of data. If we would check every file by MD5 or some other hash that we would have for each file, that would do. But if you take a look at the wiki, there are dozens of methods; most time-consuming are cached using hash lists, but they still need to be calculated.

    @topic: what we do have now:

    • balloon hint on each scanned process, shown for average scanning time of last scanned file.
    • registry tweak ("ConserveMemory") to toggle between both modes for easier debugging.
    • registry tweak ("WriteProcessLog") and command line switch ("/verbose") to enable more detailed process scanning logging.
    • improved the low-memory profile structure to speed up that scan, even though it will never reach the speed up the full structure.

    what we need to still do:

    • possibly port all TeaTimer messages to new balloon method.
    • cache scan results between seasons (except for scan after update).
    • improve the low-memory-usage data structure some more.

    I even tend to get the more memory consuming variant back into place and keep the slow-but-conservative method as a more or less undocumented feature for users of very old systems that would prefer it, will have to discuss that with the team tomorrow.

    One file per second doesn't sound too much or much slower than two files per second, but summed up for 50 files...

    (btw, this is why we didn't put 1.6 into the updates today, in case anyone wonders )
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  3. #13
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    PepiMK,

    The concept of being able to chose by registry tweak or other method between the two modes (less memory use, slower TT scan/More memory use, faster TT scan) at least enables TT to be optimised for the type of PC it is being used on.

    I am less enthusiastic about the balloon notification. Sure, those who like to watch utilities work and who try to understand what the software is doing may like it. There is however arguably more users who simply want what ever protection software they install to do its job as unobtrusively as possible. They don't have the time or inclination to worry about how the protection works and they don't want it to interrupt them unless it is for something critical. They expect it to get on with its task and leave them to get on with theirs (what ever they are using the computer for). Of a group of 6 people I provide support to, 5 fall into this catagory, they are computer users, not enthusiasts. Perhaps you would consider also making the balloon a diagnostic option that can be turned on or off.

  4. #14
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    Well I agree with everyone
    Greyfox baloon toggle is a good idea

    but if there is the hang that Zero finds- well that requires some additional investigation and a fix
    60 seconds for start up with big cpu spikes is not a Bug, it's a feature, and that is being addressed
    Nagan writes
    "It is absolutely clear that there is some terrible bug with TT that makes it spike the CPU."
    Read PepiMKs post which was made after yours-
    are you finding any of the hanging issues Zero finds?
    Nag
    What AV are you running, firewall, anything else?
    Last edited by wyrmrider; 2008-07-17 at 03:01.

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    Ok agreed that it(cpu spike) is not a bug and a intended function as the people who are in close contact with spybot say.
    My query is when the real time alert is present it will always prevent a wrong file from acting.What is the use in scanning files at the start when a detailed scan option is already available.
    I used ESET trial and presently Avira.They go about their jobs without the need for a high CPU usage.
    Whatever be the reason people do get paranoid on seeing a consistently higher usage of CPU ,because such a symptom preceeds a crash.Would not know whether it is an improvement.
    The best tradeoff should be a scan if need be with the minimum of resource used.

  6. #16
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    good points Nagan
    It appears that the scan of running processes on first access is what's taking the t-timer-time
    As opposed to a system wide scan I do not kow how you can do any useful work till the system is secure
    I have confidence in Spybot team getting a grip on this

    have you had any issues with sd-helper as others have reported.

    I mentioned AV as there have been several posts about alleged interference with AVG 8 or AVG8 anti-spyware additions. I'v seen no such reports for Avast or Antivir

  7. #17
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    We've moved the other regular hints to standard balloons now as well, which should, as a side effect, make those constant forth and back with resilient software that doesn't accept someone is not accepting their changes less desktop cluttering.
    Thanks for the hint that many users don't really want to know about these things as well - I went ahead and added an option to either show them or not to give the user the choice here. The point of it was to show some progress while processes are scanned on startup, so we decided to have it enabled by default.

    Caching between seasons works fine now as well, making a rescan only necessary if either the database has been updated, or a file has been changed.

    As for choosing between the two methods, we decided that it might be best to automatically switch depending on the memory a machine has available.

    We'll be looking at possible improvements to the low-mem method again tomorrow, but after that, we should have a new TeaTimer for testing available here (and I hope the new verbose mode has enough output to even find that permanent stall)
    Just remember, love is life, and hate is living death.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PepiMK View Post
    We've moved the other regular hints to standard balloons now as well, which should, as a side effect, make those constant forth..................
    As for choosing between the two methods, we decided that it might be best to automatically switch depending on the memory a machine has available.

    We'll be looking at possible improvements to the low-mem method again tomorrow, but after that, we should have a new TeaTimer for testing available here (and I hope the new verbose mode has enough output to even find that permanent stall)
    Thanks for the reply and giving the thoughts a look into.But whatever you say people would not like to see a spike of around 50% (in dual core) or more in single core systems.The pertinent question (ofcourse from a totally non-technical angle) is when an antivirus does not need such an extended scan why should spybot do?Scanning memory hardly takes time like any Task Manager will prove.I think Spybot is doing a little more (you are the best judge) in the initial scans.Could you not make them low priority ones or change the method of scan?I have been using spybot and am very impressed with it.This 1.6 is proving a little difficult which I am sure would be sorted out soon.

  9. #19
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    nagan:

    One point that has not been arisen during any discussions concerning the CPU utilization of TeaTimer is the fact it runs with a priority of "Low". Although it is using a lot of CPU time during startup, I personally have not observed any adverse affects in the performance of other processes during that time.

    Incidentally, after the 2008-07-16 updates there appears to be 146536 blacklisted processes vs. the 88292 I cited above. TeaTimer is using more CPU time and yet I have still not seen any adverse affects on other processes during TeaTimer startup.

    __________

    Side note:

    In most PCs the processor (CPU) is the single most expensive component and is generally priced by its speed. Theoretically if it is sitting idle you are not getting the bang for your buck.

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by md usa spybot fan View Post
    nagan:

    One point that has not been arisen during any discussions concerning the CPU utilization of TeaTimer is the fact it runs with a priority of "Low". Although it is using a lot of CPU time during startup, I personally have not observed any adverse affects in the performance of other processes during that time.

    Incidentally, after the 2008-07-16 updates there appears to be 146536 blacklisted processes vs. the 88292 I cited above. TeaTimer is using more CPU time and yet I have still not seen any adverse affects on other processes during TeaTimer startup.

    __________

    Side note:

    In most PCs the processor (CPU) is the single most expensive component and is generally priced by its speed. Theoretically if it is sitting idle you are not getting the bang for your buck.
    Agreed.But the issue is to what extent of time it can possess the cpu.I see some program whose spike is limited to few seconds like eset or avira.Well it would only make sure if there were balloons on what exactly spybot is doing during that time.

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