Not about computer, home electronics, I'm very lost.

[Crymmsun]

I don't know if this is an appropriate topic, but I'm seriously at the end of my rope. I've tried to find an item to purchase but there is no one, and I do mean no one, who sells them (new, used, etc., etc., no manuals, no one, nothing) and should be able to tell me exactly what I want to know who can. I've been at this three months. It's getting ridiculous. Maybe I'm just over complicating the question to find out what I need to know?

Maybe someone here can help provide me a simple answer in layman's terms so that I can find what I need? I hope so. I apologize if I shouldn't have asked this question in this forum/on this site, but I have tried to find the answer elsewhere (everywhere I can possibly think of) and so I come here to where I've received help before for problems with my computer that have had me stumped and I know there are far more tech-savvy folk here than I. This is my last resort.

Here is my question/problem:

I'm seeking a device that will perform like my previous older technology DVD(player)/VCR combos (what I want to be able to continue to do used to be SOP for VCRs and now everything is different) that allow us to record a television program while we can watch another show on a different channel. This is the big thing for us as I have a 72 year old mother who has programs she enjoys that often run at the same time as others she watches so she wants to be able to record one while watching another.

Some specifics: We do have cable, but not a digital cable subscription and thus we do not have a cable box. We have a plasma TV, though, and now get some default digital channels with it. I understand the bit about a tuner, somewhat but not much. I guess what I need to know is: If I purchase either a DVD recorder/player or a newer combo unit and get it with a digital tuner will this have what I need to do what I want? Or, do I need to find something with dual tuners (I ask this because I swore our older gear only had a single tuner and it did what we wanted it to do, but others I've asked about all this swear up and down I cannot watch one program while recording another with a DVD recorder unit with just a built-in tuner, they swear I need two tuners or the recorder in conjunction with a cable/set top box/something else that also has its own tuner)?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[bitman]

You're likely confused, as are the others, because you are talking about serveral different things at the same time. With the recent changes in technology to digital and the effects that is having on cable technology there are many different options and situations, both between differeing cable systems and even on the same system, which means two people can easily be correct while giving apparently entirely different answers.

Fundamentally, you are correct that you only require one tuner in the recording box (was VCR, now DVR/PVR or even Media PC), to record programs from the cable. This will allow you to tune and record any channels that the tuner can receive, which by law should now be at least an ATSC tuner capable of tuning both digital and the older analog channels which are still leagally transmitted on many (but not all) cable systems.

However, since many cable systems also use QAM compression technology to transmit those channels outside the 'basic' cable offering, it's almost required that the tuner now handle at least these also or you might miss a large chunk of the available 'standard' or other channels which aren't scrambled. Unfortunately, even QAM has several competing standards and the one used by your cable system may be changing due to their own needs to jam in all the analog, digital and other channels they currently provide.

At this point you'll have whatever you record able to be played back from the 'box' through a video input on your TV, so no tuner needs to be involved for this portion of the process, though some may still provide this type of RF modulated output on something like channel 3/4 for those sets without additional video inputs, but this situation is rare today.

Of course, if you wish to tune any of the scrambled channels or your cable system uses others that are outside the normal cable channel spectrum, you would need to acquire either a 'cable card' or set top box to tune these.

The reason you hear that the set top box is required is that for some technologies such as recording High Definition programming or on some proprietary systems such as the new AT&T U-verse they are. Since these channels are generally either outside the normal spectrum that ATSC tuners can receive or the entire technology is different as with the AT&T DSL based video over Internet Protocol, neither your TV nor a third-party consumer electronics recorder can receive these.

Another thing to be aware of is that most cable systems will be dropping the analog channels over the next couple years and switching them all to digital, which will in the least require the ATSC tuner already mentioned and also possibly a QAM. Since these plans vary, it's difficult to determine what might happen with your cable system, since some don't fully disclose these plans.

All of this ties into what the cable systems themselves are doing with the set top box (STB) technology as they migrate to digital tecnology. Most are moving to something with a DVR (Digital Video Recorder) and often two tuners to allow watching one program while you record another with the STB. In some cases such as with AT&T, the STB technology can receive multiple (currently 4) video programs or 'streams' at once. These can be displayed on any or all of the other remote non-DVR STB devices within the same house, even while that same or other streams are being recorded.

So you can see why you are receiving so many different responses to what seems a simple question, since the context of what cable system, what channels (analog, digital, QAM, premium scrambled, etc.) and how future proofed you wish to be all apply.

I believe that most people will simply switch to using the various set top box options provided by the cable system itself, since these don't require an upfront purchase and rental costs are down to $7-15/month in most cases. This leaves both the maintenance and technology decisions to the video provider and allows you to easily drop one and switch to another without the possibility of your hardware becoming outmoded. Only those with the intent or requirement for long term commitment such as rural or other locations with only one option available are likely to make the investment in hardware that you are considering.

Bitman

[Crymmsun]

Bitman,

Thank you so very much for clarifying this for me! You have answered a lot of questions for me.

If you would indulge me one last clarification I would be forever grateful.

Currently, to do what I want to do I had bought an inexpensive DVD recorder/player that has no tuner (inexpensive is a good thing ). Our old device's VCR portion had finally given up the ghost and I didn't want my mother to miss things she enjoys. Obviously, with this new device I couldn't record and watch another channel simultaneously. So, since the older DVD(player)/VCR's tuner still worked, I slaved the new device to it and ran our cable into the old device with the tuner and the new DVD recorder to the television.

I can record one channel and watch another simultaneously with this configuration. As the TV is a new plasma and we can get some new digital channels (just the basic non-subscription, what those who only have an antenna on the roof would get with a new TV like this no cable service needed) we don't get those through the older device's tuner (for instance, if I wanted to record them) as I am assuming now from reading your answer to me is because it possesses an analog tuner? Did I get that right?

This isn't a need of ours, we won't be recording anything on those channels. I can get all the channels we have always gotten before we got the new TV for what I need. Anyway, since this configuration I set up between the two components I can do what I want to do. However, it has problems and it's very difficult for my mother to work the setup trying to remember it all using all 3 remotes.

If I purchased a DVD recorder/player or a new DVD recorder/VCR combo with an ATSC (did I get that right?) digital tuner (the models readily available these days, either new or fairly new - anything as long as it's not as old as the other devices I've been trying to keep us in) will I be able to plug my cable into it and connect it to the television and record one channel while watching another?

I believe from what you have told me I should be able to accomplish this, yes? I want to thank you for your help in this. I'm sorry if I seem a little dense about all this, I just want to be able to do this for my mom and I feel so helpless because it has had me so stumped. I never had these difficulties before, but I do understand, like you said, it is because the technology is changing so much.

Thank you again for trying to clarify this for me.

[bitman]

I completely understand the mess and confusion all of this change can cause, since I've gone through much of the same over the last couple years with both my own parents and myself.

Fortunately for me, my parents were interested in getting more channels than the old technology allowed, so they moved to AT&T which required one box that includes it's own DVR. So they've only needed to learn one set of new things all focused around a new set top box that operates the same from either of the 2 TV/STB setups and allows them to view any program or recording from either of them using exactly the same type of remote control.

This is worth the extra cost for me, since they're getting better use out of the equipment than almost anything I've tried over the last several years and finally using some of the more complex features like the online Guide and Search, which helps to simplify such a large number of channels.

In your case though, it sounds like basic cable is good enough, which generally has less equipment cost. I also believe that at least the local and possibly a few other channels must continue to be provided on channels that an ATSC Tuner can receive, even after the digital conversion is complete.

Since I'm not really interested in these devices and thus only know a few of the basic technology rules, I'll have to defer to others. One of the best places to start since it usually refers to better sources when available is WikiPedia. Here's a link that drops right into the middle of a document about DVD Recorders, specifically a section about ATSC standalone DVD Recorders, which also mentions DVD/VCR combo units without tuners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_rec..._DVD_recorders

The rest of that same page covers the other DVD devices in more detail. You might also find some useful info on this page about the ATSC Tuner, though portions of it go into excruciating deteail about the broadcast technology itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner

In any case, what I've told you already provides just a brief overview as I understand it and where things seem to be going. The only thing we know for sure is that the next few years will probably bring even more change, as the technologies such as HDMI connectors, ATSC Tuners and others truly standardize and new products begin to take hold. The fact that everything can now be looked at as data removes the separation that used to exist between what is video, audio, tracking information and descriptions (metadata). Now they're all just data files.

What all of this means is that I wouldn't expect anything bought during this period to have more than a 2-3 year useful life, which is why I'm avoiding buying anything right now. I'd rather rent (STB) until everything settles down and we know what is going to survive. The only thing I believe we can say for certain is that there will still be video, audio and something to store them on, but what and even where these might be is changing quickly.

Bitman

[Crymmsun]

Bitman,

Thank you so very much! Your help has been invaluable. The information you provided me through your responses and the links you so generously shared has helped me immensely. I believe I have this sussed and will be making an informed purchase shortly.

I hope I have assimilated this all correctly! I shall soon find out!

Thank you again!

May your Solstice and the year it heralds be bright!