Either Safer Networking Ltd. or Symantec leaving the Anti Spyware Coalition...

[wulfbear]

I agree with much of what has been said. I also registered for the forum just to vote in the poll and respond to this. As with many others, I used to use Norton Utilities, etc. from way back when, but have not used any Norton/Symantec for a few years now, as it has, in my opinion, been ruined.

I am using Spybot-S&D and a few other programs to combat spyware, ads, pop-ups, viruses, etc. now, all of which are free, and very effective. Even having next to no money, and an 8 1/2 year old PC, I've still found no problems running Spybot-S&D, or indeed finding useful and effective free or inexpensive programs like it. I recognize that some 'expensive' programs must be bought to have true effectiveness, but I wish more programs took the classic approach that Spybot-S&D does, and wrote tighter programming code like the "old days".

Programs like these, ironically perhaps, are worth their weight in gold.

[RollaCoasta]

I voted "Yes, detect NIS completely!", but somehow more sarcastic. Sarcastic, because like some other guys here mentioned already, and most of us might be aware of, MONEY rules the world. And the non-flexible yellow giant made already so much of it, selling the yellow-boxed pc-tranquilizers, that it might be easier to win the lottery jackpot than to win against them in court.

Ok, if you look how difficult - if not impossible - it is, to do a really clean uninstall of the yellow crap, they would deserve to find them self on the detection rules. And it's really a pity that so many hardware-producers deliver their machines bundled with this junk.

An open battle, Symantic vs. Safer Networking? I think, the risk is to high that Goliath would trample down David, just with his moneytary background.
"But as the harder they come, the harder they fall" Jimmy Cliff sang long time ago, and so I'm shure, Sym-tic will also do. I'm not happy about the fact that MS is pretending now (soon), they would protect purchasers systems of the crap that comes through the holes which they themself left open. But that could be a turning point for some of the money-collectors who promise security but bring instability.
Dinos disappeared because them were not flexible enough. And so it's also in business just the question, when do they reach their critical mass?

To all those people here who still use the yellow junk but think about a change. Yes YOU are the power, that can change Sym-tic's behaviour! Cause Money is the only language the speak. Don't buy it, and tell everybody else, also to use better alternatives!

Get rid of the yellow tranquilizer:

• clean your system of all the leftovers it (yellow crap) leaves there (or best do directly a fresh install);
• use an other, more effectiv less bloated, av-scanner (some are mentioned already, my favourites are Kaspersky or Avira AntiVir);
• get a simple hardware router - it doesn't cost more than a one-year subsription to sym-crap but works for years and the firewall in it is not such a cheat than all those desktop-/personal-"firewalls";
• (this is one of the most important points, as like the next one!) Use an alternative, "non-activeX", browser - e.g. Mozilla Firefox or Opera, with the right configurations;
• keep your system, browser, javaRE, apps etc. always uptodate;
• don't misuse user-accounts with administrator-rights for internet trips and other everyday's jobs! they are called administrator-accounts/-rights because they are there to administer your computer - and nothing else;
• and then the very most important - use your brain when you surf in-the-net, read your email or install new software;

After all this, the above mentioned non-yellow av-scanner, together with Spybot S&D (with its preemptive tools like immunisation, sdhelper, hostlist and teatimer) will be just like your safety-belts and airbags in your car. You use them preemptiv, but with the intention, that they possibly never have to run in action!
Additionally with an image of your clean installation and regular backups, there'll be then no need to slowdown your pc with 2 GB of "protective" apps (yes, computers can also do other things than to only protect themself).

@Patrick and Team Spybot,
hey guys, be strong and stay conscious in what your doing. And a BIG THX for your great tool/s!

Greetings
RollaCoasta
(who fortunately got rid of the yellow crap two years ago )

[ET3D.]

Like others here, I registered for posting on this topic. (And BTW, why force a minimum of 5 letters for user name? I use 4 on most boards, and would never remember this user name in the future.)

I think that detecting Norton as spyware is stupid. It'd make Spybot S&D look like it's malfunctioning. Worse, it'd make Norton completely correct in urging its removal -- by your own criterion. (Since removing Norton impairs system security by definition, regardless of what you think of Norton's effectiveness.) In short, by claiming that what Norton is doing is wrong, and then doing back the exact same thing, you'd be going for meaningless revenge, and benefitting people in no way at all.

If you just detect Norton as spyware, people will not know what the issue is, and will just think Spybot is defective. I have no problem, on the other hand, with a dialogue in your software which mentions the issue specifically. Go ahead, tell people about the issue with Norton. Refer them to the discussion on your site. Let them make their own decision -- which will probably be in your favour.

So a specific detection of Norton, a message about it, and the option to not show this dialogue in the future, seems like a good solution to me.

As for legal channels, I won't suggest that. The link for sending e-mail to the ASC is a positive measure, and I'm sure some people will e-mail them. Some people might blog about this, or post news on tech sites. Public awareness can be a powerful force, which is why I think notifying users of the situation is the better solution.

[NH1_me]

I Think that spybot has to add an completely detect and remove all files, entries and registry info, but I would show the 'Norton'-problem in a different window and give a few links to other programs who do the same as Norton, but are better.
(Like 'for a: virusscanner you can use avast,
firewall you can use ZoneAlarm', ...) (or other good programs).

I used Norton, once too... But I did a complet uninstall (I'm still finding registry keys of it and it would be nice if spybot found them for me.), because it slowed down my computer too much. So I installed another virusscanner/firewall/... . The new virusscanner (avast), works much faster, didn't cost as much and found ... a few virusses that norton didn't found.

Since then I recomend Norton only when you want to throw away money and important system resources...

[Sticky Mick]

I say play them at their own game.

I don't like NIS anyway. I installed it when I built my new PC last year, decided it wasn't for me (took ages to boot my PC, and was too slow).

I uninstalled it and tried to install the gear that I use now:
Spybot S&D
AntiVir
Zonealarm
and A-Squared.

None of them would install. I found out that it was something left behind by NIS. I e-mailed Symantec and their reply was "Well you'll just have re-install it" Had to re-install XP in the end, because they wouldn't tell me how to clean up my system.

[KentSyl]

Symantec only needs to keep going the way they have been lately, to be the means of their own destruction. When norton goback had issues with Spybot on one of my computers, the solution was simple I uninstalled norton system works,including norton goback!In my opinion, Symantec products (since 2004) have not been a good thing to put on your computer, especialy if you want to use it. Newer symantec products cause slowdowns, crashes, and shutdown problems. The net result is that I, like many other people have found somthing better, that will actually work with newer operating systems and computers.

[liknoj]

Anyone willingly running Norton, even for free, are probably too far off the mark to be concerned whether SSAD is a good or a bad thing to delete from their system.
In my opinion,SSAD would be better served by continuing to market its products and capabilities successfully rather than risking expensive litigation against such a large and entrenched organisation.
David did once slay the giant, but remember he only had one (lucky?) shot, and we all know where he would have ended had he missed!

lijnoj

[JohanSamyn]

I can only add to this list my own bad experiences with Symantec products. Indeed, trying to remove them marks them - at least for me - as true malware, because it's almost impossible to achieve. It's been already so long ago, I don't even remember if I succeeded, or if I reinstalled my pc. I think nobody has the right to try to master anybody elses pc that way, not even with the motive of "helping you to protect your machine". So yes, I voted "Detect and completely remove NIS". I understand however, that fighting Symantec in court would indeed be a Goliath-David experience. But it should be clear that nobody is allowed to tamper with the rules. To me, who hinders or fights people that are trying to help others (even for free !) is to be eliminated out of the game. It's untollerable. They are indeed violating the rules of the ASC, so action agains them is justified.
To Patrick Kolla (and eventually colleagues/helpers/etc) I say : "Thank you so much", your product has helped me several times already, and is a tool I would not like to miss. Please keep up the good works, as we use to say.
My donation will follow soon. I think this should become our normal behaviour. When we use someone's free product, and it is of real value to us, we should spontaneously compensate that person for his/her efforts.
Regards, Johan

[NJuser]

I love Spybot and I have and will always have it on my pc's.

I also have used Norton for many years. I probably always will.

Reading through these messages I can understand the frustration of software that did not work for somebody, and the need for some folks to vent for reasons that may not be related to this issue.

I did a search of "Spybot Search & Destroy" on the Symantec site. When it came to NIS2007 and Spybot they talked about it running the tea timer feature and the worst case solution was to uninstall Spybot, then uninstall Norton IS2007 restart the computer and then reinstall NIS 2007 and then reinstall Spybot. Hardly a condemnation of Spybot.

I am going to write to Norton/Symantec and voice my concern if they are stating anything else elsewhere.

[Zenobia]

You mean this page?
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...ocument&seg=hm

Well,in my own personal opinion,I think NIS should add some of the info from the above page,to this warning box,rather than have the warning box say to uninstall Spybot,with no mention of the instructions from the link above included:
http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slid...kxOTgyMQ%3D%3D
(Above taken from this thread) :
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16919821