thanks for the advice, it seems you have taken care of my problems answered my questions and then some. good advice is hard to come by online without giving a credit card # first and even then it's not always that good of advice. i am wondering if i open this thread on my laptop will the links to the tools you have given me work to install them on that computer? we don't need to get into that one right now as i would have to make an appointment with my wife to get it away from her long enough to look at it, just wondering. it's an HP running vista with a win.7 upgrade. on the subject of the computer we have been working on i think we can call it a success. again thanks for your help.