Open letter to the Spybot makers

[yosmc]

Couple of weeks ago I downloaded an .exe file from the Internet. That's probably my biggest mistake, that I downloaded it myself. Oh, and I executed it, too. Only later did I discover that it didn't do what I thought it would do. Because it would do weird things to my browser. Essentially it would hijack my browsing attempts - send me somewhere else, I don't know where, but at least not to the address I typed into the browser.

No reason to whine though. I downloaded and executed the .exe file myself, so I'm the one to blame. Luckily, the .exe file came with an unistallation routine. So I uninstalled everything, restarted the system, and crossed my fingers. But the payload was still there, uninstallable basically. My browsing not the same anymore. Shucks. You say that was to be expected? Well, maybe. So what to do? Format the drive? Reinstall the operating system? Download a spyware remover/detector like spybot SD to clean up the mess?

Ah, now wait a sec - the program I installed WAS already spybot SD! Now that's interesting... Why Spybot SD would automatically block out a legitimate and large PR-6 advertising company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casale_Media) isn't my biggest concern (on the other hand, we're not talking about deleting those bad, bad tracking cookies that basically ensure that visitors see only ONE popunder in a user session, but about completely wiping the site off the browsable internet, much like Amnesty in China). What concerns me most is the way this is done. Essentially I suspected that Spybot SD was the cause of my headaches, so I uninstalled it, BUT THAT DID NOT RESTORE MY WEB ACCESS TO WHAT IT USED TO BE! I dug deep enough in Internet Explorer to find that list of restricted websites and took *.casalemedia.com off the list. Still, no go. I discovered that there's another entry, www.casalemedia.com on the list and removed it. Still, no go. Rebooted the computer. No go. In the end I resorted to reinstalling Spybot SD to see if there's a list presented upon installation where I can check or uncheck the list of bad sites. No such list. Then I finally learned of the Hosts list. Unfortunately, it's essentially a *hidden* list. It doesn't show up in the default menu. Fine, so you find the expert setting that warns you to only use it if you really, really know what you're doing. (Well, it's my computer, so who should know if not me?) But even in the expert mode, there's no Hosts list in the menu! You need to check the box in yet another list to finally have a glance of the websites that Spybot SD deactivated. Seems like the concern isn't so much about *visiting* those sites, but about viewing that list as it might hurt your eyes. *Ouch*

Dear Spybot makers, just a question - do you actually, honestly, and humbly still remember which side you're fighting on? The bad guys, those that mess with other people's computers and install stuff that they can't get rid of - they are on the *other* side of the fence. Right? Right!

[tanstaafl]

casalemedia IS adware/spyware...

go troll somewhere else...

[PepiMK]

Hmmm...

So... you uninstalled the Spybot-S&D through its uninstaller, you saw the big notice of the uninstaller that explicitely told you that if you want to undo something Spybot-S&D has done, uninstalling would be the wrong way, but went ahead anyway, only to complain that it was the wrong way?

Come on, if you ignore such a warning, you should complain first to the user in front of the machine for doing something when he was told to not do so if he wants to undo an action

Oh, and by the way, the immunization feature is not hidden behind that many checkboxes, it's an icon right there, visible when you open Spybot-S&D.

As for the Wikipedia link To Casale Media... what exactly were you trying to show there? The page itself didn't include a lot of facts, but the discussion page was quite revealing: the company itself tried to push itself into Wikipedia and was removing talk page content it didn't like. So all in all, that Wikipedia link does not sound like a company with legitimate behaviour at all?

Furthermore, I guess you should've also added a link that described what an "PR-6 company" is. Please keep in mind that we're not one of those organizations who live and sell to buy their shareholders new Ferraris, but an organization of people who prefer hard work over marketing slang Quick guess: Public Relations: 6. 6 was the worst grade in school though, so I doubt you would advertise it with that meaning

[yosmc]

Hmmm...

So... you uninstalled the Spybot-S&D through its uninstaller, you saw the big notice of the uninstaller that explicitely told you that if you want to undo something Spybot-S&D has done, uninstalling would be the wrong way, but went ahead anyway, only to complain that it was the wrong way?

Come on, if you ignore such a warning, you should complain first to the user in front of the machine for doing something when he was told to not do so if he wants to undo an action

Oh, and by the way, the immunization feature is not hidden behind that many checkboxes, it's an icon right there, visible when you open Spybot-S&D.

As for the Wikipedia link To Casale Media... what exactly were you trying to show there? The page itself didn't include a lot of facts, but the discussion page was quite revealing: the company itself tried to push itself into Wikipedia and was removing talk page content it didn't like. So all in all, that Wikipedia link does not sound like a company with legitimate behaviour at all?

Furthermore, I guess you should've also added a link that described what an "PR-6 company" is. Please keep in mind that we're not one of those organizations who live and sell to buy their shareholders new Ferraris, but an organization of people who prefer hard work over marketing slang Quick guess: Public Relations: 6. 6 was the worst grade in school though, so I doubt you would advertise it with that meaning

Pepi, you are missing my point. I've used Spybot SD several times over the years - mostly together with Hijackit in situations where a friend botched up his computer and needed emergency assistance, and it's always done a good job. This time the experience was vastly different.

For the record, upon uninstall I saw the usual yada yada ending with "Are you really sure..." so I clicked "yes". I can assure you that the majority of users who have uninstalled more than 100 programs in their life won't take notice of the "big notice" in that location, even moreso when they're not aware that Spybot changed their system in the first place. Tansta will tell you differently of course. I guess it's up to you what you would like to believe.

Until reading your last post I wasn't aware that it's the "immunize" function (step X of Y) that restricted my ability to surf the web. Even the help file says that it only blocks executable code and cookies. And we're not in court - if you can prove to me that it's written out somewhere, what do you win? I wasn't aware of it, and if you think I'm the biggest dumbass under the sun so there's nothing to worry about, fine! You have my blessing.

What's the point about Casale editing their discussion page? Is that the reason why Spybot blocks their homepage by default? (If yes, then you still have a ton of work ahead...) Or are you trying to tell me that accessing www.casalemedia.com is immanently dangerous and protecting me from this threat is in my own interest and in the spirit in which I downloaded Spybot SD? C'mon. It's like closing down the entire sidewalk because there's dog poo somewhere. The sidewalk may be shitty (as may be Casale be in your view) - but with a bit of self-reflection you should be able to see when you're pouring out the baby with the bathwater.

I was assuming that you (as most programmers) spend enough time in front of your computers to know what Google Pagerank is, so you would also know what a PR-6 company is. The spybot website has a PR of 7, which indicates (although not proves) that it is a popular site used by many.

To tansta and everyone else from the bashing squad (including those two folks who are probably still gonna chime in after this post): I completely know I'm a jerk and I admit Casale paid me $10,000 for these two posts. Your mission is accomplished, now kindly move on. I will do the same, as I've already wasted too much time in this thread.

[Greyfox]

Seems like verbal diarrhea!

[OldTabby]

tanstaafl, your accusation that "casalemedia IS adware/spyware" is way off base! Adware/spyware has to be installed on a user's computer, CasaleMedia does NOT produce or distribute any installable software.

CasaleMedia is a perfectly respectable Canadian advertising agency, they distribute web advertising just like Google, Yahoo, VibrantMedia, BurstMedia, DoubleClick, et al. It is a registered company & their clients are advertisers & webmasters.
I do not work for them but I do work with them.

I have been running advertising from CasaleMedia agency for years, I have never seen anything in their code to cause concern. As a company they don't advertise or track anything let alone install spyware/adware. Certainly some of their advertisers use tracking cookies & even produce & advertise spyware/adware but those same advertisers use all of the other agencies as well as CasaleMedia to distribute their ads, & use exactly the same ad code/cookies with each agency.

I share yosmc's frustration, several weeks ago I updated Spybot, ran it a few days later as part of my normal routine &, as usual, allowed it to immunize. On reflection the only thing I did differently was to clear out all cookies first.

In the first week of each month I check all of our ad agency accounts for the previous month's earnings & any notices to webmasters. I could not access CasaleMedia's website, in fact I thought they had server problems because Firefox told me it could not find the server. I had no reason to suspect Spybot had blocked it & it took me a VERY frustrating few days of searching for answers to find out what had happened.

I would really like to know why Spybot considers it necessary to block Casalemedia's website.
A member of Team Spybot, spybotsandra, correctly includes them with other ad agencies & has posted in dozens of threads: (and others like Advertising.com, Avenue A, Inc, CasaleMedia, Fastclick, Hitbox, Mediaplex etc.) BUT CasaleMedia's website address is the ONLY one of those that is blocked by Spybot in the hosts file!
Why is that?!?

AFAIK labeling CasaleMedia as a "bad boy" started years ago because someone accused them of using ad code to deliver pop-ups that couldn't be stopped by the pop-up blocker they were using! Duh! that could just as easily have been code on the website or a poor pop-up blocker. It's not a good reason to continue to bad-mouth a respectable company.

[blues]

tanstaafl, your accusation that "casalemedia IS adware/spyware" is way off base! Adware/spyware has to be installed on a user's computer, CasaleMedia does NOT produce or distribute any installable software.

most adservers is a privacy risk even if they dont try to install spyware. i use spywareblaster,spybots immunize and hostsfiles to block such sites as casalemedia because it is my choice if i want to see their ads or get their tracking cookies. why do some adservers use flashing ads? i have other things to do than looking at silly ads all the time, i want to look at the sites i visit and not the ads. some of the ads also gives some people seizures. think about that, but it is all about money so you dont care. i will report every adserver i find to the blocklists that i know about.