Spybot 1.6 causes massive IE7 slowdown
- Thread starter jmj713
- Start date
Doug,
This issue would appear likely to be a complex one, given that there are many cases where there is no significant slow down in either IE6, IE7 or Windows Explorer being experienced. For example, I have 3 machines on a network and access to another two on a different network. All are XP, but a mixture of XP Pro and XP Home, a mixture of SP2 and SP3. There is a mixture of CPU types, and there is no significant slow down on any of them.
The only commonality is that they all have 1GB memory, they all use Avast Home Edition AV, they all have Zone Alarm Free firewall 7.3.483.000, 3 have Spybot 1.6.0.30, two 1.6.0.31, and none of them use any 3rd Party add on Tool bars. Three have Teatimer 1.6.1.22 active, the other two don't use Teatimer. All have the SD browser helper active. Only one has any additional blocked items (only 4) added to the SD browser helper.
Your thought about having to start from scratch with a clean install of whatever version of Windows is being used, then add in Spybot and the SD browser helper and if the problem isn't present then gradually add in the other software may shed some more light. The problem will be finding someone who actually has the problem (or is it two different problems - one where the browser is affected, one where Windows Explorer is affected) who is prepared to do this in a very methodical way.
This issue would appear likely to be a complex one, given that there are many cases where there is no significant slow down in either IE6, IE7 or Windows Explorer being experienced. For example, I have 3 machines on a network and access to another two on a different network. All are XP, but a mixture of XP Pro and XP Home, a mixture of SP2 and SP3. There is a mixture of CPU types, and there is no significant slow down on any of them.
The only commonality is that they all have 1GB memory, they all use Avast Home Edition AV, they all have Zone Alarm Free firewall 7.3.483.000, 3 have Spybot 1.6.0.30, two 1.6.0.31, and none of them use any 3rd Party add on Tool bars. Three have Teatimer 1.6.1.22 active, the other two don't use Teatimer. All have the SD browser helper active. Only one has any additional blocked items (only 4) added to the SD browser helper.
Your thought about having to start from scratch with a clean install of whatever version of Windows is being used, then add in Spybot and the SD browser helper and if the problem isn't present then gradually add in the other software may shed some more light. The problem will be finding someone who actually has the problem (or is it two different problems - one where the browser is affected, one where Windows Explorer is affected) who is prepared to do this in a very methodical way.
Thank you for your response Greyfox.
I agree with all your observations - this is not a problem that most are seeing - but enough people are reporting a problem with SDHelper to make it clear something is causing a bad interaction. As you say we may have two different problems one affecting Windows Explorer and one affecting the IE browser. I'm not entirely sure but it seems to me that the IE slowdown problem is mostly reported by Vista users - while the Windows Explorer problem is more common for XP users like myself.
Spybotsandra has just responded with a suggestion in this post - http://forums.spybot.info/showpost.php?p=223254&postcount=44 and I am awaiting a response as to whether her theory can expalin both symptoms.
I have installed Spybot v1.6 on four XP computers so far - and have seen the Windows Explorer delay problem on two of them - but have not seen the IE slowdown problem. I do however run with the DNS Client service disabled to avoid the browser startup delay caused by the large Hosts file. I just tried restarting this service but it doesn't cure the Windows Explorer delay problem.
So far the only common theme for the computers where I have had a problem is that they were all single core Intel P4 3Ghz machines running XP-Pro with 1Gb Ram all running AVG Free v8 and the Windows Firewall. The two computers without the problem were XP-Home running on AMD processors also running AVG Free v8 and the Windows Firewall.
At present I am just turning off SDHelper and keeping my fingers crossed that the anti-spyware monitoring of AVG Free v8 and TeaTimers resident process checker will deal with the deficit.
I agree with all your observations - this is not a problem that most are seeing - but enough people are reporting a problem with SDHelper to make it clear something is causing a bad interaction. As you say we may have two different problems one affecting Windows Explorer and one affecting the IE browser. I'm not entirely sure but it seems to me that the IE slowdown problem is mostly reported by Vista users - while the Windows Explorer problem is more common for XP users like myself.
Spybotsandra has just responded with a suggestion in this post - http://forums.spybot.info/showpost.php?p=223254&postcount=44 and I am awaiting a response as to whether her theory can expalin both symptoms.
I have installed Spybot v1.6 on four XP computers so far - and have seen the Windows Explorer delay problem on two of them - but have not seen the IE slowdown problem. I do however run with the DNS Client service disabled to avoid the browser startup delay caused by the large Hosts file. I just tried restarting this service but it doesn't cure the Windows Explorer delay problem.
So far the only common theme for the computers where I have had a problem is that they were all single core Intel P4 3Ghz machines running XP-Pro with 1Gb Ram all running AVG Free v8 and the Windows Firewall. The two computers without the problem were XP-Home running on AMD processors also running AVG Free v8 and the Windows Firewall.
At present I am just turning off SDHelper and keeping my fingers crossed that the anti-spyware monitoring of AVG Free v8 and TeaTimers resident process checker will deal with the deficit.
I'm Dualcore and I'm having these problems. XP-Pro (sp3), Intel E6550 Core2 Duo 2.33GHz with 3.5GB ram available.
Also navigating folders was painfully slow, too. I went back to Spybot 1.5.2 and the problem disappeared.
Doug,
Of the computers I mentioned in my earlier post that are NOT experiencing the problems, one is a 2.40GH Core 2 Duo, one (a portable) is a Solo core and the others are all P4's. Three of the five originally had AVG 7.5 AV which was OK, and were then updated briefly to AVG 8. They were then shifted to Avast because of the significant loss of performance with AVG 8, and adverse interaction with Spybot's scan. The other two were using CA Antivirus which again was OK, but were transferred to Avast when the last contract period finished.
I'm not sure exactly what Spybot Sandra means in her reference to domains, but perhaps she is referring to stripping down the currently 18,879 blacklisted sites and files used by SD helper to only those known to be active at the moment. No doubt this will become clearer in time.
One thing I would be interested in is whether there is any difference in regards to either of the problems in having SD Helper not used at all (via the tick box in Tools/Resident), or left ticked there but then disabled in the IE 7/Tools menu/Manage Add ons/Enable or Disable Add-ons?
Greyfox I just tested your suggestion about disabling SDHelper totally or just in the IE Manage Addons - and observed an interesting result. My problem is purely a 3 second delay opening folders in Windows Explorer - however both methods of disabling SDHelper remove this 3 second delay. I have tested this with two configs - XP-Pro_SP3 + IE7 and XP-Pro_SP2 + IE6 both react the same.
I know several other members have reported curing the IE slowdown via either route - but I was suprised the Manage Addons route cured my Windows Explorer delay - although I suppose they are functionally the same. But how a BHO that is only supposed to load when you start IE can affect the operation of Windows Explorer/My Computer - when IE is not running - is puzzling and the reason I feel we need some technical input from the developers.
I think you must be correct about the domains that Spybot Sandra refers to in her post - do you have any idea if the number of entries (18,879) has increased significantly since v1.5.2 of Spybot? Seems unlikely to be the sole cause unless it has exceeded an IE size limit allocated to handle such lists - which is not impossible as the new Hosts file causes such a problem due to its size.
I held off the AVG Free v8 upgrade until they released the SP1 update (build 138) and even now I do not install the Linkscanner/Toolbar or MS Office plugins (choose custom install and untick the boxes). I also disable the automatic daily scans to keep things under my control - but I used to do that in v7.5 as well. The overall performance is now very acceptable - startup is a little slower than with v7.5 and full scans take a bit longer due to the added Anti-Spyware instead of just plain Anti-virus.
I know several other members have reported curing the IE slowdown via either route - but I was suprised the Manage Addons route cured my Windows Explorer delay - although I suppose they are functionally the same. But how a BHO that is only supposed to load when you start IE can affect the operation of Windows Explorer/My Computer - when IE is not running - is puzzling and the reason I feel we need some technical input from the developers.
I think you must be correct about the domains that Spybot Sandra refers to in her post - do you have any idea if the number of entries (18,879) has increased significantly since v1.5.2 of Spybot? Seems unlikely to be the sole cause unless it has exceeded an IE size limit allocated to handle such lists - which is not impossible as the new Hosts file causes such a problem due to its size.
I held off the AVG Free v8 upgrade until they released the SP1 update (build 138) and even now I do not install the Linkscanner/Toolbar or MS Office plugins (choose custom install and untick the boxes). I also disable the automatic daily scans to keep things under my control - but I used to do that in v7.5 as well. The overall performance is now very acceptable - startup is a little slower than with v7.5 and full scans take a bit longer due to the added Anti-Spyware instead of just plain Anti-virus.
Doug,
Just for the heck of it - If you look in c:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\Includes, you will find a file called Domains.sbs. With your browser closed, temporarily rename this file to xDomains.sbs. Then restart your browser. You will find that the Black listed sites and files for SD helper has dropped from 18,879 on my PC, to 600 odd (I forget the exact figure). It would be interesting to see what that does for your problem.
I'm not totally surprised that things to do with IE6 or IE7 also affect Windows Explorer, they have always had significant interaction.
Re AVG 8. I haven't tried the SP1 update - I was so pleased with Avast when I moved to it, that I haven't bothered with AVG since. One of the problems I had with the original AVG 8 apart from it incorrectly classing Spybot immunisations as problems, was the amount of time it added to the Spybot scans. It might be interesting to compare the times for a Spybot scan with and without the AVG8 SP1.
Just for the heck of it - If you look in c:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\Includes, you will find a file called Domains.sbs. With your browser closed, temporarily rename this file to xDomains.sbs. Then restart your browser. You will find that the Black listed sites and files for SD helper has dropped from 18,879 on my PC, to 600 odd (I forget the exact figure). It would be interesting to see what that does for your problem.
I'm not totally surprised that things to do with IE6 or IE7 also affect Windows Explorer, they have always had significant interaction.
Re AVG 8. I haven't tried the SP1 update - I was so pleased with Avast when I moved to it, that I haven't bothered with AVG since. One of the problems I had with the original AVG 8 apart from it incorrectly classing Spybot immunisations as problems, was the amount of time it added to the Spybot scans. It might be interesting to compare the times for a Spybot scan with and without the AVG8 SP1.
Greyfox - interesting suggestion re Domains.sbs
Renaming this file does as you say reduce the "Sites & Files" reported as protected by SDHelper - but has no effect on the 3 second delay seen in Windows Explorer. I made sure with a reboot but the delay remains. You can also see the reduced protected items count in the main program on the Immunize screen due to Domains.sbs being awol. I renamed the file back to normal and rebooted again with no change to the 3 second delay in Windows Explorer.
I then extended your idea and removed ALL immunisations via the Undo in the main program - and to top it off also renamed Domains.sbs again - so there was no chance SDHelper could find it - and rebooted to ensure new settings were in use. No effect at all - the 3 second delay remains. But disable SDHelper and the delay is instantly gone.
Watching in Task Manager the CPU usage of Explorer jumps to 50% and stays there during the 3 second delay - but only shows a momentary spike when SDHelper is disabled. Without SDHelper the CPU usage in Task Manger (Performance graph tab) appears to reduce when you revisit the same folder again (caching?). You see the spikes on the graph get smaller - but with SDHelper running the CPU usage always rises to exactly 50% stays there for 3 seconds and then falls back to zero.
It would appear SDHelper is causing Explorer to get stuck - doing what I have no idea - any suggestions as to how to track this down? I have various utilities including Sysinternals Process Explorer but am not sure what to look for. Just had a first look and Sysinternals Process Explorer v11.04 does actually allow you to see that it is the BROWSEUI.DLL thread that accounts for all the CPU usage of Explorer during the 3 second delay. That might be an important clue to the right person?
Renaming this file does as you say reduce the "Sites & Files" reported as protected by SDHelper - but has no effect on the 3 second delay seen in Windows Explorer. I made sure with a reboot but the delay remains. You can also see the reduced protected items count in the main program on the Immunize screen due to Domains.sbs being awol. I renamed the file back to normal and rebooted again with no change to the 3 second delay in Windows Explorer.
I then extended your idea and removed ALL immunisations via the Undo in the main program - and to top it off also renamed Domains.sbs again - so there was no chance SDHelper could find it - and rebooted to ensure new settings were in use. No effect at all - the 3 second delay remains. But disable SDHelper and the delay is instantly gone.
Watching in Task Manager the CPU usage of Explorer jumps to 50% and stays there during the 3 second delay - but only shows a momentary spike when SDHelper is disabled. Without SDHelper the CPU usage in Task Manger (Performance graph tab) appears to reduce when you revisit the same folder again (caching?). You see the spikes on the graph get smaller - but with SDHelper running the CPU usage always rises to exactly 50% stays there for 3 seconds and then falls back to zero.
It would appear SDHelper is causing Explorer to get stuck - doing what I have no idea - any suggestions as to how to track this down? I have various utilities including Sysinternals Process Explorer but am not sure what to look for. Just had a first look and Sysinternals Process Explorer v11.04 does actually allow you to see that it is the BROWSEUI.DLL thread that accounts for all the CPU usage of Explorer during the 3 second delay. That might be an important clue to the right person?
Please note I am also reporting these suggestions and observations in the other current SDHelper thread http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?t=30943&page=5 - just in case some SDHelper sufferers are not following both threads.
This parallel thread is titled "Resident SDHelper slow in 1.6" and is more centred on the Windows Explorer delay problem - whereas this current thread was initially more about the IE Browser slowdown problem.
This parallel thread is titled "Resident SDHelper slow in 1.6" and is more centred on the Windows Explorer delay problem - whereas this current thread was initially more about the IE Browser slowdown problem.
Note to anyone who is suffering the IE7 slowdown due to SDHelper.
You might like to try Greyfox's test in post #27 above regarding renaming the Domains.sbs file. The size of this file is the only cause that Team Spybot (Spybot Sandra) have so far suggested as a cause of this problem - this renaming test should prove or disprove this theory. A reboot after the rename would be a good idea just to ensure it is active.
I only suffer the Windows Explorer/My Compter 3 second delay myself - which is not improved by this test.
Please report back in this thread any results - positive or negative.
You might like to try Greyfox's test in post #27 above regarding renaming the Domains.sbs file. The size of this file is the only cause that Team Spybot (Spybot Sandra) have so far suggested as a cause of this problem - this renaming test should prove or disprove this theory. A reboot after the rename would be a good idea just to ensure it is active.
I only suffer the Windows Explorer/My Compter 3 second delay myself - which is not improved by this test.
Please report back in this thread any results - positive or negative.
Thanks for the test result julian81
Well this seems to cast further doubt on the only theory from Team Spybot about a cause for this problem. Removing the large Domains list used by SDHelper doesn't fix the slowdown/delay of either IE7 or Windows Explorer seen by some users of Spybot v1.6 - disabling SDHelper seems to be the only fix.
Any more members with the IE slowdown want try the test suggested in post #27 above - and report back with a result?
Well this seems to cast further doubt on the only theory from Team Spybot about a cause for this problem. Removing the large Domains list used by SDHelper doesn't fix the slowdown/delay of either IE7 or Windows Explorer seen by some users of Spybot v1.6 - disabling SDHelper seems to be the only fix.
Any more members with the IE slowdown want try the test suggested in post #27 above - and report back with a result?
Julian81 has just reported in another thread that clearing the Cookies folder has solved his IE7 slowdown problem.
See THIS post from the thread Resident SDHelper slow in 1.6
Not sure where this takes us - as I did not experience this symptom using XP.
Clearing the Cookies folder does cure the delay seen in Windows Explorer.
Maybe Vista reacts differently to XP.
See THIS post from the thread Resident SDHelper slow in 1.6
Not sure where this takes us - as I did not experience this symptom using XP.
Clearing the Cookies folder does cure the delay seen in Windows Explorer.
Maybe Vista reacts differently to XP.
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I can confirm that clearing cookies on Vista restores IE7 functionality. No more slowdown.
However, this is a workaround, not a fix. This is not normal operation, and the previous versions of Spybot worked fine with a large cache of cookies.
It appears that SDHelper has a problem with excessive numbers of cookies but expresses this in two different ways according to whether you are running XP or Vista.
Under XP you see a delay in Windows Explorer/My Computer
Under Vista you see a delay/slowdown in the IE7 Browser
Clearing the Cookies Folder appears to cure both these problems.
As stated this is a new behaviour for Spybot v1.6 - neither problem occured under Spybot v1.5
This really needs to be addressed by the developers.
Under XP you see a delay in Windows Explorer/My Computer
Under Vista you see a delay/slowdown in the IE7 Browser
Clearing the Cookies Folder appears to cure both these problems.
As stated this is a new behaviour for Spybot v1.6 - neither problem occured under Spybot v1.5
This really needs to be addressed by the developers.
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I just checked into this forum for the first time because of the IE slow down. I'm running SB1.60 on WIN2K(SP4), IE6. I've been running a SB 1.4 for a long time, no problems. Installed 1.60. Noticed an immediate and very pronounced (read dial up speeds on a cable connection) slow down even opening IE6.
Found no place to disable SB functionality in IE6 so I uninstalled SB1.60. Immediately IE6 was back to normal. Installed SB1.60 again....exact same problem again. Uninstalled SB again....and again IE6 was back to normal speeds. All download speeds appeared to be affected, not just webpages, but DL'ing anything while in IE6.
Definately appears to me to be a bug in SB1.60.
Machine is a Vanilla Box, Intel 945 MB, 2gigs ram, 3.2 P4.
JohnnyB
Found no place to disable SB functionality in IE6 so I uninstalled SB1.60. Immediately IE6 was back to normal. Installed SB1.60 again....exact same problem again. Uninstalled SB again....and again IE6 was back to normal speeds. All download speeds appeared to be affected, not just webpages, but DL'ing anything while in IE6.
Definately appears to me to be a bug in SB1.60.
Machine is a Vanilla Box, Intel 945 MB, 2gigs ram, 3.2 P4.
JohnnyB
You do not mention if you checked the number of Cookies stored on your system - so far this is the only confirmed cause of the slowdown due to SDHelper. However it appears the version of Windows in use may affect the exact symptoms seen and maybe even what triggers SDHelper to misbehave in this way.
One other user with Win2K has posted that cookies did not appear to be the issue with his IE slowdown - see here: http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?t=33006
Either we have a different cause for your SDHelper problem - or Win2K exhibits a new variant of the problem.
Vista and XP already appear to show different symptoms when SDHelper chokes on excessive cookies.
One other user with Win2K has posted that cookies did not appear to be the issue with his IE slowdown - see here: http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?t=33006
Either we have a different cause for your SDHelper problem - or Win2K exhibits a new variant of the problem.
Vista and XP already appear to show different symptoms when SDHelper chokes on excessive cookies.
Terminator
New member
I've made an Important breakthough (in my case anyway). I disabled all my IE 7 Add-ons and then re-enabled them one by one and when I re-enabled the Java Console (latest Version), Google Toolbar (Latest version of 4.0) and something called "Research" there was instant lag on load-up, With these Add-ons disabled load-up was almost instantaneous
.
If anyone else has these add-ons installed please post back here with your results.
I think we are getting closer to solving this mystery
!
PS: I tried the Cookie Clearing idea and it had no effect on my Vista machine.
EDIT: The google toolbar seems to be the main culprit especialy if you have Google set as your homepage.
. If anyone else has these add-ons installed please post back here with your results.
I think we are getting closer to solving this mystery
!PS: I tried the Cookie Clearing idea and it had no effect on my Vista machine.
EDIT: The google toolbar seems to be the main culprit especialy if you have Google set as your homepage.
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Doug -- I posted a reply to you in another part of the forum
Doug --
I am running Windows 2000 SP4 (with all the up-to-date Micro$oft patches) (FWIW) and posted a reply to you in another section of the forum ( http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?p=227250&posted=1#post227250 ) in which I related my success story in overcoming the annoying Windows Explorer lag by clearing cookies in my Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106.
(I was actually doing a search on the newest TeaTimer with its animated system tray feature when I came across your post. After posting, I discovered that I had neglected to read down to the final page of that post and therefore thought you had not yet arrived at a solution.)
Doug --
I am running Windows 2000 SP4 (with all the up-to-date Micro$oft patches) (FWIW) and posted a reply to you in another section of the forum ( http://forums.spybot.info/showthread.php?p=227250&posted=1#post227250 ) in which I related my success story in overcoming the annoying Windows Explorer lag by clearing cookies in my Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106.
(I was actually doing a search on the newest TeaTimer with its animated system tray feature when I came across your post. After posting, I discovered that I had neglected to read down to the final page of that post and therefore thought you had not yet arrived at a solution.)