You Cyber, We Sue

[GATOR]

YOU CYBER, WE SUE


Hello to all:bighug:

I would like to learn about spyware, and yes, I'm one of those people, an ATTORNEY.:devilpoin:

so that there is no misunderstanding. i am totally new to this area of law, and extremely ignorant of any understanding of computers. the extent of my knowledge is to be able to turn on the computer.

i just spent 10 minutes trying to fiqure out how to put a gator avatar on my posts and gave up, so please help.

i suspect after a decade on this board i may learn something.

but not to mislead you, my intent is to learn what people and companies are doing bad stuff, so i can SUE EM!





first topic: i want to learn about freeware aka free spyware, and gpl's


CASE SCENARIO........:euro: owns the copyrights to software but wants to allow it's use to all for free

issue 1: when you download the free software, is that all that is being downloaded or are there additional presents being added........you guys call it bundling software, so they have a present with the free softwareresent:

how do you know if:euro: is not a :angel:, but :euro: added a resent: to your software and is actually a :devil:


PART 1..........GO TO PART 2

 

[GATOR]

issue 2; there are a bunch of :wav: that want to use :euro: software for $$$.

:euro: said that :wav: was :welcome: to use sofTware BUT NOT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, and :wav: said :yes:

but then :wav: downloaded the free software, set up a their own website and then made $$$ and laughed all the way to the bank:rotfl:

what does :euro: do?

 

[GATOR]

so there are attorneys that are the :devil: but the GATOR, AKA THE :crowned: in a certain drug class action involving 6 million people!, is really a nice guy



so was reading http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/categories.html and looked like :scratch:

spybot search and destroy...........gives away free software......what is it?
``Free software''
``Open source''
``Public domain software''
``Copylefted software''
``Non-copylefted free software''
``GPL-covered software''
``The GNU system''
``GNU programs''
``GNU software''
``Non-free software''
``Semi-free software''
``Proprietary software''
``Shareware''
``Freeware''
``Private (custom) software''
``Commercial software''

if i want to critique.....edelman's valentine day massacre article @
http://www.benedelman.org/news/021408-1.html

....Critiquing C-NetMedia's Anti-Spyware Offerings and Advertising Practices

and help :euro:

the GATOR needs help

or pm the gator ..............all in confidence:bigthumb:

 

[PepiMK]

Difficult to read anything between all those colorfulsmileys
"first topic": you probably meant "free anti-spyware"?

"issue 1": depends on the type of bundled software - "legal" bundled software requires the installing application to inform the user during the installation process. that's why it is so important to read those twenty page long terms of service shown at the beginning of most installations that no one reads.
Reading the comments for a software download and various of the bigger software download platforms (BetaNews, Download.com, various computer magazine online portals) is always a good start to read a few comments of other users.

"issue 2": in that case, informing the hoster of said website usually helps quite fast. Trademark issues (copycats advertising rogues with misleading names) are much more trouble than those, but you've read that in the article from Ben Edelman already. Takes ages to get down to finding out the site owners, since they use anonymization services, ages to do all the legal paperwork, tracking their moves to various addresses, etc., but we're still on their tracks

Spybot-S&D's license? That is probably a "custom one", some propriatary, with touches of, but not qualifying fully as, "open source" and "semi-free".
FSFs descriptions are of course all quite biased, which is not a bad thing in itself, but those categories are not legal facts, just rough drawers.

 

[GATOR]

Pepimk......thanks for responding and coming over to my room.i can call it that right.to have a chat......

i hate to miss stuff so let me copy....separate and dissect. of course your stuff will be between the {...}...........this whole area is like a new language!.


{"Difficult to read anything between all those colorfulsmileys" }..... hopefully we can draw people to this room..........i expect it will be the most colorful......real quick......they general get that way when you talk about lawsuits................$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...but usually computer grads-engineers.thow in a few lawyers and the room gets stuffy......not with me.....................so we also have to have fun!:banana:


{"first topic": you probably meant "free anti-spyware"?} .thanks.....i have no trouble lowering my defense to show my stupidity....so teach me dude!

we should coin the term............."free spyware".......i noted software.....but your right on the anti spyware............but i guess the problem is that some companies bundle...

FREE ANTI-SPYWARE BUNDLED WITH FREE SPYWARE....COME AND GET IT!....:thud:



{"issue 1": depends on the type of bundled software - "legal" bundled software requires the installing application to inform the user during the installation process. that's why it is so important to read those twenty page long terms of service shown at the beginning of most installations that no one reads.
Reading the comments for a software download and various of the bigger software download platforms (BetaNews, Download.com, various computer magazine online portals) is always a good start to read a few comments of other users.}

BUT............'LEGAL" bundled software would probably not be the way to do it:spider:...how does it work?

free anti spyware is marketed.........person agrees to download......dont they just see the 1 type of product.......you push button.sit back.play on something..maybe even watch but..........

you dont know what is being downloaded........unless its people like you..with your packet sniffer things!..

so you are downloading product 1........and it's legal notice consent blah blah.but attached to it are 20 separate products..........that you never agreed to......never consent to............and its coming to the party too.right!:band:



{"issue 2": in that case, informing the hoster of said website usually helps quite fast.}.............ya but then they are kicked off and in seconds.on another

im surprised that the spyware guys...... :wav: dont have multiple hosters.......so they wont be totally out of action if they get kicked off.......rotate multiple web domains on multiple hosters:wink:


{Trademark issues (copycats advertising rogues with misleading names) are much more trouble than those, but you've read that in the article from Ben Edelman already. Takes ages to get down to finding out the site owners, since they use anonymization services, ages to do all the legal paperwork, tracking their moves to various addresses, etc., but we're still on their tracks }


CANT AGREE.....cyber crime is easyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...it aint like solving a real crimeolice:...or proving up accident and death cases after the fact...............cyber footprints every where.............and tons of lawsssssssssssssss.......$$$$$$$$$$.........but it's new area of law for attorneys:yahoo:

there have been lawyers doing trademarks.copyright.contracts.etc.......and even doing the disputes..........

but the $$$$$$ that laws award!...........if i could mix a computer guru......with a privacy/computer law prof's guru.and a class action litigator..........all on the same team. :yahoo:

but it seems like this area has been untouched by aggressive attys found in class actions...........

law profs want to sell a blog....get a print in a newspaper .write a book........blah blah............helps with tenure......

if class action attys see money in this biz of policing spyware:flame:

{Spybot-S&D's license? That is probably a "custom one", some propriatary, with touches of, but not qualifying fully as, "open source" and "semi-free".
FSFs descriptions are of course all quite biased, which is not a bad thing in itself, but those categories are not legal facts, just rough drawers.}

cant respond.need to go back onto that other site to review.i need to go down list to examine each..
__________________

issues of day:.................bundling spyware with anti spyware?
....................................custom license?.....open source?......

im lost..........but greatttttttttt start.thanks..

 

[GATOR]

issues: "legal" bundled software requires the installing application to inform the user during the installation process............

user wants only 1 program...user gives consent to download that 1 software
while the downloading starts................the bundled software that was not authorized is downloaded..

thats how easy it is .right?

99% of users never know ............right?

 

[GATOR]

...........http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/categories.html

 

[YoKenny]

Its really funny that Gator was one of the first spyware applications that came out

http://www.pchell.com/support/gator.shtml

 

[GATOR]

but............it will work well for marketing

there are good gators and bad gators!:banana:

 

[bitman]

Problem is, the really bad stuff comes from other countries now, even if the creators might be based in the US. This leads to issues of international law and enforcement, which are creating huge issues for governments, let alone the individuals attacked.

The FTC has done enough here in the US to scare even most slightly reputable marketing organizations into relatively decent behaviour. Those foolish enough to attempt such a thing domestically at this point would be an easy target for FTC action.

The instant any significant reputable organization attempts such a move they are quickly involved in such bad press that they are forced to correct the situation themselves, or face the destruction of their hard won reputation. The low-hanging fruit for class action would have potentially been available a few years ago, but now it's not really a concern.

The remaining issues are more something that governments will have to resolve. The courts as a whole move too slowly to effect any useful short term solution. The primary issue is the generally unrecognized fact that by using our personal freedom to communicate without government monitoring on an international stage (the Internet), we also effectively remove any protection that might afford, resulting in the requirement to protect our own 'borders' (PC network) from international criminal activity.

Bitman

 

[GATOR]

Who wants to discuss edelman's valentine day paper...............http://www.benedelman.org/news/021408-1.html
Critiquing C-NetMedia's Anti-Spyware Offerings and Advertising Practices
February 14, 2008
________________

note: this article is interesting and opens up a lot of issues relating to this spyware biz. i am not pro edelman, nor pro c-net, nor adversarial to either, nor have authority from either to review this matter. Do not interpret my inquiry or comments to provide any legal opinion. I dont have a dog in this fight, i'm just on sideline looking for an understanding,opcorn:

_____________________________________________

intro-outline of arguments;.............{no comment,} emphasis added

"Deceptive advertising, deceptive product names, and deceptive web site designs falsely suggest affiliation with security industry leaders. Details.
The use of many disjoint product names prevents consumers from easily learning more about C-Net, its reputation, and its practices. Details.
High-pressure sales tactics, including false positives, overstate the urgency of paying for an upgraded version."


subsection title...
"Deceptive advertising, deceptive product names, and deceptive web site design falsely suggest affiliation with security industry leaders."

4th para.....
"Some C-NetMedia products are marketed using practices, keywords, labels, and layouts that falsely suggest they come from security industry leaders. This suggestion comes from both the actions of C-Net itself, as well as from the actions of C-Net's marketing partners."


C-NetMedia vs CNET Networks..........C-Net..........CNET........when were these companies incorporated, what's evidence of company existing.personnel.products,trademarks as opposed to the other?


ISSUE 1......after the title, conclusion in the intro, and apparent bias against c-net as opposed to cnet, from the start, im losing my impartiality! :thud:


ISSUE 2........."falsely suggest they come from security industry leaders"

what's the argument...............trademark?.copyright?....Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act ?

ISSUE 3.........WHO IS WITH HIM AND THEY ARE WITH THEM, WHO'S THAT?
"actions of C-Net itself, as well as from the actions of C-Net's marketing partners":scratch:

NOTE WE ARE STILL REVIEWING THE 4TH PARAGRAPH!:hair:

who is c-net
who are c-net affliates
who is cnet
who are cnet affliates
who is spyware search and destroy
who are the spyware search and destroy affliates?


clickbank?:scratch:


WHO OWNS THE SOFTWARE BEING DOWNLOADED?
IS THE SOFTWARE BUNDLED WITH SPYWARE?
WHO IS DOWNLOADING SPYWARE WITH "LEGAL" SOFTWARE

--------------------------------

ISSUE 4:......IS THE SOURCE CODE PROVIDED WHEN YOU DOWNLOAD THE "FREE"..SOFTWARE........

--------------------------------------------

 

[optimized]

I think this spyware s*** is BS

I got tired of it:cowboy: so I got a MAC :angel:and I have not had any trouble in a a year! Everyone s**** on PC's:red:

 

[optimized]

SpyWare

computer software that is installed surreptitiously on a personal computer to intercept or take partial control over the user's interaction with the computer, without the user's informed consent.

While the term spyware suggests software that secretly monitors the user's behavior, the functions of spyware extend well beyond simple monitoring. Spyware programs can collect various types of personal information, such as Internet surfing habit, sites that have been visited, but can also interfere with user control of the computer in other ways, such as installing additional software, redirecting Web browser activity, accessing websites blindly that will cause more harmful viruses, or diverting advertising revenue to a third party. Spyware can even change computer settings, resulting in slow connection speeds, different home pages, and loss of Internet or other programs. In an attempt to increase the understanding of spyware, a more formal classification of its included software types is captured under the term privacy-invasive software.

In response to the emergence of spyware, a small industry has sprung up dealing in anti-spyware software. Running anti-spyware software has become a widely recognized element of computer security best practices for Microsoft Windows desktop computers. A number of jurisdictions have passed anti-spyware laws, which usually target any software that is surreptitiously installed to control a user's computer.

 

[GATOR]

:rotfl::wink::wink:
TO bitman and optimized:greeting:

thank you for joining us on our discussions. this will not be just an ordinary chit chat like all other blogs blah blah. we will create interesting issues of debate here...............so dont go away, :wink:

BUT UNDERSTAND WE ARE HERE TO HAVE FUN: :banana:


IMAGINE IF A GROUP OF COMPUTER SPECIALISTS THAT SPEND THEIR TIME SEARCH FOR , AND DESTROYING SPYWARE, ACTUALLY GOT GREEDY!

IMAGINE IF A GROUP OF ACADEMIA /LAW PROFS GOT TIRED OF WRITING BLOGS IN HOPES OF SOME ENTITY PICKING UP THEIR BLOG CITE AND GOT GREEDY!

IMAGINE IF A GROUP OF ATTORNEYS....GOT GREEDY!.........DUH DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.:rotfl:

SO!..do we spend our time chatting about what new spyware did what to what new yadda yadda.. and stop, or

GATOR WANTS TO KNOW;

what entity/person violated the law,
how did they do it
prove they did it,
are they worth suing!

EVERYONE says;......SHOW ME THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

the purpose of our discussions are to help save the world from spyware. we will search and help each other find the spyware. we are not concerned about making money. that is not a reason to spend my life on blogs and hoursssssssssssss researching these matters.

we need to make it a good world.!.................OK ENOUGH WITH THAT BS..
i do not want a bunch of people trying to find bad guys so you can try to fiqure out how to sue em!..


keep the attorneys away from here!.............they will look at. lets say the

ANTICYBERSQUATING PROTECTION ACT ...........AND THINK MONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY,

"The trademark owner can recover (1) the domain holder's profits from use of the mark, (2) the trademark owner's damages resulting from harm to the value of mark, and (3) court costs as "actual damages." In determining the award to be paid, the court can choose to award up to three times the amount of actual damages. Attorney fees may be awarded in exceptional circumstances, such as when there was a willful and malicious violation.

Instead of having to prove the amount of "actual" damages suffered as above, the mark owner can instead request payment of "statutory damages" from $1000 and $100,000 per domain name."

do not sit around all day trying to make $1000.00 per violation per domain name

SAVE THE WORLD FROM SPYWARE.........RESEARCH DESTROY AND THEN STOP............DONT THINK ABOUT MONEYYYYYYYYYY
-------------------------------------------------------------






The low-hanging fruit for class action would have potentially been available a few years ago, but now it's not really a concern.

 

[GATOR]

Bitman:thud:

you get the thud award for the day!

"The low-hanging fruit for class action would have potentially been available a few years ago, but now it's not really a concern."

take the poll ? on this site............find the queen!......

ftc is slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
shh shh shh ...............please keep class action attorney out of this biz....plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz it is sooooooooooooooo easy to track what is going on,

and the privacy laws!!!!!!!!!....................biggggggggggg returns.

class action attorney are coming , i can hear them..............

it's natural...............computer guys begot the computer spyware law prof's................and then they will begot ............those greedy class action attorneys......

-----------------

shh shh shh.................you are sitting on a gold mine . keep it quiet!

 

[GATOR]

:yahooptimized


YOU ARE BANNED FROM USING THE WORD: surreptitiously :rotfl: did you just get a webster?

but i give you the :2thumb:award of the day,

we are getting a little off track..................from our review and debate about .http://www.benedelman.org/news/021408-1.html


NEXT AREA TO DEBATE:.................BLOCKBUSTER CLASS ACTION!

optimized actually threw out some stuff about the beacon affliates:

"Spyware programs can collect various types of personal information, such as Internet surfing habit, sites that have been visited, but can also interfere with user control of the computer in other ways, such as installing additional software, redirecting Web browser activity, accessing websites blindly that will cause more harmful viruses, or diverting advertising revenue to a third party."

---------------------------
PLEASE :bow: READ MY POST AND I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THOSE ISSUES..

optimize............go read that article .and jump in..........
i promise to jump into blockbuster...........next week!..:yahoo:

 

[GATOR]

researching and coffee in am!...............:yahoo:

 

[md usa spybot fan]

GATOR:

How do you charge for law suits? Is it on a contingency basis or by the smiley?

 

[tashi]

Hello,

http://forums.spybot.info/showpost.php?p=680&postcount=1

The intention of this forum is not for:

• People to self promote, their tools, sites, business or whatnot.

This site provides assistance to users of our software, Spybot-S&D.

We are not lawyers, nor is this sub-forum a podium for people to drum up customers.

If users wish to make their voice heard please see: Malware Complaints

Thank you for your thoughts, this topic is now closed.